A Cost Effective Way to Bring Down Water Temperature
  • hsleehslee January 2012
    Posts: 49
    I was at AKA Koi today and surprisingly saw the new system that Aaron has installed. So far this is a cheapest and most effictive way that i have ever seen to bring down the water temperature beside having Chiller. According to Aaron, the temperature of this pond was at about ~29C - 30C before the system was installed, and now he is able to bring it down to ~25C - 26C, and is pretty impressive !! He has done some experiments to get the correct size of all the tiny holes and also the arrangement in order for the system to achieve the optimal result.

    This system will also increase the aeration of the pond, Aaron has tested it for almost two weeks and now all the koi has become more active and color has also improved, so.... I'm going to test it out in my pond very soon. For those who are interested, you could buy some ready make unit from AKA koi.

    The only possible setback that i could think of is that the holes will easily be blocked if the diameter is too small and regular cleaning might be required, otherwise.....is a good system and no harm giving it a try.

    http://www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/5596/Sungai%20Buloh-20120115-00201.jpg
    http://www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/5592/IMG-20120115-00197.jpg
    http://www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/5593/Sungai%20Buloh-20120115-00198.jpg
    http://www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/5594/Sungai%20Buloh-20120115-00199.jpg
    http://www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/5595/Sungai%20Buloh-20120115-00200.jpg
    Post edited by hslee at 2012-01-16 04:49:34 pm
  • JamesJames January 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Hi HS, the key to this is to have a high flow rate and since this is also pumping water from the clean chamber, it is unlikely to get stuck. I have this in my QT and I have never seen it stuck..
  • ashfaqashfaq January 2012
    Posts: 799
    .
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
    Post edited by ashfaq at 2012-01-16 05:24:56 pm
  • KoiBeginnerKoiBeginner January 2012
    Posts: 234
    Impressive.
  • hsleehslee January 2012
    Posts: 49
    James, how effective is this system in your QT ?
  • ShukriShukri January 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    My only reservation is....... there goes the estatic value of your pond and the surrounding landscape........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ChengAunChengAun January 2012
    Posts: 925
    Uncle Shukri, bakki shower pun tak cantik :P
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • ShukriShukri January 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    CA, I do not have a Bakki Shower in my system....... :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • JamesJames January 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro HS, koi shiroji is v good from my QT. Bro Shukri, the pipes do not have to stand upright.
  • pslongpslong January 2012
    Posts: 288
    James, did you manage to do a before and after water temp comparison?
  • vinsonchuavinsonchua January 2012
    Posts: 163
    Great design...too bad i can't apply to my pond. My friendly next door will feedback on the high dB.
  • JamesJames January 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro Sean, no before after. Just a in my qt and in someone else's pond...
  • DanleeDanlee January 2012
    Posts: 694
    Bros,

    This is how mine looks like.

    koianswers.com/discussion/download/5601/Shower.jpg

    I used to install them vertically but the water was shooting further and everywhere after a while when the hole got filled up with dirt.

    I can get temperature down to 27 degree duing this hot spell without chiller with this simple set up. Worth considering.....
    Attachments
    Shower.jpg 112K
  • ChengAunChengAun January 2012
    Posts: 925
    Ok, time to go to the hardware store....AGAIN :D
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • ashfaqashfaq January 2012
    Posts: 799
    Nice Idea brother, i will also applies the same, thanks for the good Idea :)
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • hsleehslee January 2012
    Posts: 49
    Thanks for all the ideas from everybody. Ya, we always need to find a balance point among the efficiency, cost and also the outlook of our system.

    Aaron has also tested out the result by installing the pipe horizontally, but the result was not as good as vertical type, it only manage to bring down the temperature by 2C. I think the key to this design other then the high flow as Bro James pointed out, the result is directly related to the duration of time the water stream stays in the air, the longer it stays the more heat dissipation it will have, and the smaller the stream with more opening of holes, the more area of contact of water with the surrounding cold air. But of course, i personally also think that the horizontal type looks better.
  • DanleeDanlee January 2012
    Posts: 694
    Bro HS,

    I agreed with you. I suspect the height and the hole size has a lot of influence on the effectiveness of this system. Credit needs to given to Bro Raymond Hew who was the "inventor" of this system.
    Post edited by Danlee at 2012-01-19 07:06:20 pm
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] January 2012
    Posts: 0
    impressive...it's like a spray bar in an aquarium with small holes... :)
  • KaajKaaj January 2012
    Posts: 376
    Bro Dan,
    Is this running on a seperate pump or have you re-routed one of the pipe outlets from your waterfall?
  • koi888koi888 January 2012
    Posts: 131
    I wonder if the PVC pipe change to steel pipe it would more effective...?????
  • JamesJames January 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    I think steel pipe is not that great an idea. Too good a conductor also causes the water to warm up when the surrounding temp is high. Running this from a separate pump or from an existing water return should be fine except you will have to watch the water levels as the holes do slow down the flow rate compared to just an open pipe.
  • DanleeDanlee January 2012
    Posts: 694
    Bro Kaaj,

    This is a separate pump that draw water directly from pond.. that's why it get clogged up faster.
  • vinsonchuavinsonchua January 2012
    Posts: 163
    What if the water outlets are positioned upwards aka a fountain? Would this help with the duration of time the water in the air hence allows more heat dissipation?
  • KaajKaaj January 2012
    Posts: 376
    Bro Daniel,
    Thanks for the clarification. 2 degree drop in temp is massive, considering there is so little that needs to be done. Are you using a 1/2" or 3/4" pipe? How long is the pipe used?

    Bro James,
    Thanks for the heads up. I will try to convert only 1 of the 4 underwater jets so the flow rate isnt affected too much.
  • pslongpslong January 2012
    Posts: 288
    Bro James, do you know what size holes did AKA koi use?
  • JamesJames January 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro Sean, Aka uses v fine holes. I think it is the smallest drill bit used. My qt uses a larger hole so that the water flow is a little faster but less strong. It depends what u want and how big your pond is. Smaller holes can cause algae growth on many walls as it tend to wet the surrounding a little more.
  • ripclawzripclawz January 2012
    Posts: 15
    Hi guys... Just my humble opinion....but I think this type of cooling effect can be achieved by having a well planned bakki shower maybe by increasing the gap of empty space between the layers of media... Provided the bakki buckets have small holes so increased surface area for water to cool down n oxygen exchange.....of cos the height of bakki will be increased example maybe 5 to 6 tiers... N some have mentioned that it is not the best option in terms of appearance but perhaps a well constructed bakki column can hide it... N the plus side from my point of view is it has multiple function like cooling, oxygenation n remove ammonia at the same time... is there an increased water loss by evaporation experienced by u guys who have set up the spraying system? .... cheers.... Happy CNY...
  • wongyengwongyeng February 2012
    Posts: 238
    I think Bakki Showers will do the trick too
  • lautslauts February 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    My version of the spray bar , using the 40mm 8ft long with slit cut with metal saw. The slit is then smoothen with sand paper , easy to DIY . Provides better contact with air powered by a Tsurumi 150w. Aim is increase aeration as well.

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/5790/waterspray1.JPG

    ts

    Post edited by lauts at 2012-02-10 05:15:14 am
  • hsleehslee February 2012
    Posts: 49
    Bro Lau, any sign of reducing the temp of your pond ??
  • lautslauts February 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Lee ,

    Yes but not significant i think. i am crazy when it comes measuring water parameters , pH , nitrate etc. i have 2 aquarium termo and one digital pH that measures temp as well. These days are really hot , before using the spray bar, temps goes to 28.3C at 6pm, after using spray bar temps abt 27.8-7 C, monitored for few days after install the spray bar. i was running a SS std spray bar with big holes to increase aeration before this. So any lowering effect on water temp is welcomed. Just to share the sakai kohaku , we bought during the last Shinkokai show in Awana , female 53cm ;-) never did do the planned minor operation on the poor head pattern. But i am very happy with the body, growth and good skin for the Rm150 paid.

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/5799/sakaicheras.JPG

    thanks
    ts

    ps. i will be nearby on Sat , sms me if you want the 3.3kg clay.
  • JamesJames February 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro TS, your spray is not strong enough. Either reduce the number of cuts in the pipe or increase your pump power. It needs high flow rate.
  • lautslauts February 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Worth trying , will cover 50% of slit and see how it goes.

    ts
  • hsleehslee February 2012
    Posts: 49
    Hi Lau, nice piece of kohaku for the price we paid, what did u do for such fast growth rate ? I think mine is only 40+ cm.
  • SBSRIDHARSBSRIDHAR February 2012
    Posts: 50
    Hi Bro Lau, Nice kohaku, thick tail tube, good siroji and deep beni looks very nice.

    S.B. Sridhar
  • ShukriShukri February 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    TS, bloody worth it for a RM150. Indeed this is a big pattern Kohaku. A little bit of sashi on the middle right side. With color feeding, you can even up the Beni. Good shirogi and Odome. Very clean pectoral fins and a small tail fan.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-06-11 02:47:28 pm
  • lautslauts February 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Thanks guys,

    I think the koi came with good genes , big discount due to last day and packing in progress at the show ground. :-D . Most would give it a miss due to pattern but imagine it with wider body and the patterns move up showing more shiro ?

    Intention was to try out a little procedure on the head pattern , which is the main weak point in pattern. But as usual la never got round to it . Now i just let nature take its course. Body can do a lot better as i have been fasting ie 20-30% of usual feeding with some days of no feeding in between. This since end Dec2011.

    On water temp reduction and spray bar , pond have been given additional covers and with the spray bar , water temp is now 26.7-27.3C from 27.5-28.5. :-D
    I am working to add another spray bar soon. I think the temp reduction from the bar is abt 0.5-0.8C, good considering no additional effort other than cleaning the clogged slits.

    ts
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bros,

    Some update on temp reduction , i am enjoying temp 25.8c to 26.1c with new spray bar placed vertically, hole size reduced to 1.5mm, 2 20mm 3ft PVC pipe. Powered by one 12ton Tsurumi. Also enjoying a cool breeze from the air turbulence generated near the pond :-D.
    Very happy considering minimal resources and effort put in except drilling hundred of holes :-)) :-)) to get that 2C further reduction. I think temp could go down further considering how hot our days are now ( 32-35c).
    Any one care to explain why this works ? i think it is more than evaporation at work.
    Say i add another one pump and two more spray bars , will temp go down by another 2C to 23c? :O

    thanks
    ts

  • MikeMike June 2012
    Posts: 346
    Lau,

    A few question that I hope you dont mind answer, my pond is 28.9 to 29.3 nowadays ~X(

    How high do you position the spray bar from the water level.
    How far apart the 1.5mm hole from each other
    Is all the hole in line or you drill at random.

    Cheers
    Michael
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Mike,

    According to koi physiology the optimum temp is 22 to 28C.
    Spray bar is position vertical , 1.5ft above water level rising up to 4.5ft. Holes are abt 1cm apart , inline , 2 lines 0.5cm part.

    ts
  • HDCuHDCu June 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Lauts,

    Have you tested your water temperature at different depths before the installation of the vertical spray bars. Normally in deeper ponds, water temperature may be different at deeper depths.

    I have no doubt that the vertical spray bar will cool the water through air conduction, I am just wondering whether it would be more effective in terms of bringing down the temperature and electricity saving if you draw water at one to two feet below surface water level or at the bottom of the pond.
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro HDCu,

    Temp same , taken abt 1 feet below water surface and one from water rising from BD in first chamber. In fact i think water temp from BD is 0.1c higher than surface due to cooling effect of this spray bar. In take water from pump chamber , abt 2ft below water where pumps generates heat.
    You think adding another pump and bar will reduce temp further ?

    ts
  • StevieStevie June 2012
    Posts: 323
    With constant movement of water and replacement in our (small) koi pond I doubt you can get different temp at various depths. Unless there is no BDs maybe, just maybe some little difference.

    I also think there is a limit to the amount of temp it can bring down due to ambient temp (surrounding air temp included) regardless how many spray bars we have. It is to find the optimum of each individual pond.

    Just my 2 cents opinion.
  • StevieStevie June 2012
    Posts: 323
    It is like the different temp between the forest and the city. In the forest there are tress and evaporation via the leaves cool the surrounding environment. But it cannot be too much of a difference between them say like 5-8 degree is the max. or a little more like 10 degree on a very very hot day. Shade or no shade, city also have buildings and shades but that kind of shade unlike leaves have little or no evaporation.
  • AnuarAnuar June 2012
    Posts: 688
    Bro Lau,

    Very hard to believe but very well done indeed.

    I just wish to share that if you run the spray pipes horizontally against the water and if the holes are not as per recommended size, i.e. larger, the temperature reduction WILL not work... Given my small pond foot print, I am not able to follow the recommended vertical arrangement of the pipes. I will try to bore smaller holes though, hopefully will work.

    Thanks Bro Stevie on the evporation theory, which I think sufficiently explain the reason how the temp drop could be achieved. I assume the water must be sprayed finely and if possible for them to be in contact prior to landing on the water surface? And the longer the water is airborne, the better to achieve the temp reduction?
  • mangkellmangkell June 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Dear Bro Lauts,

    Can U post some pics of the New spray bar & piping system used that gives you temp sub 25°C++ vs 28°C++ normal hot day. The last pic is 27°C.

    Tq
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bros,

    This morning water temp 25.7c at 6am and 26.2c at 6pm yesterday. Air temp is 33-34C ? night at 26c 6am. :-D

    I was very skeptical of the whole thing at first when seeing it first in AKA Koi , credits to bro Aaron, then at Bro HSLee's place. My first DIY bar temp only 27 plus , but after change to vertical and much smaller hole ( 1.5mm) result is good. The strength of spray is important ( this from bro James) , it helps in evaporation. Also smaller hole and higher up from water surface.
    i can actually feel the cool breeze at the other end the spray, this is another advantage. Now am thinking to add another one pump to see result . :-D

    Pict taken and will share later.

    ts
  • MikeMike June 2012
    Posts: 346
    Lau,

    Some images will help as bro Mangkell state.

    Cheers
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    patience bro Mike,

    camera at home , later. Start getting some drill bits , get few pieces, bits so thin they break easily bro. Now 3X2.5 ft 20mm PVC connected to T reducer 40mm does the job. What if only turn on at night on cooler temp ?

    :)
    ts
  • MikeMike June 2012
    Posts: 346
    Bro Lau,

    Agree that 1.5mm drill bits is a tad fragile. Its best to use with a dc drill so that control is much better.
  • JamesJames June 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    This system's not meant for those who want to still see calm water when gazing into the pond. The whole concept is not just size of holes. An improved version (aesthetically at least) is being prototyped and tested.
  • KoiBeginnerKoiBeginner June 2012
    Posts: 234
    Just to share, My temperature this morning after putting the spray bar(Idea incorporated from AKA Koi) was 25.8c and during the evening today, it was 26.5 or lower.
  • MikeMike June 2012
    Posts: 346
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bros,

    Must share this , temp at 6pm was 25.9C(from previous day 26.2) ! =D> while air temp is 33-34c in the afternoon ? i am expecting it will drop to 25.5C tomorrow morning. :-))

    koianswers.com/discussion/download/7212/Spray.JPG
    koianswers.com/discussion/download/7213/sprayback.JPG
    koianswers.com/discussion/download/7214/sprayside.JPG
    koianswers.com/discussion/download/7215/temp6pm.JPG

  • cookcpucookcpu June 2012
    Posts: 462
    Bro TS, is it noisy.
  • ShukriShukri June 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    I feel cold out of a sudden.........it must be working.....
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • MikeMike June 2012
    Posts: 346
    Thanks for the images Lau, How far does the spray reach as per image below. Just a thought, since the pressure is there, do you think incorporating a venturi will help.

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/7216/spraysidea.JPG
    Post edited by Mike at 2012-06-14 11:31:13 pm
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro William,

    Sound of a shower, depends on your set up may be noisy. For me it is not as it replaces my noisier venturi, and masking my airpumps' sound.
    Mike most water drops between 4-6 ft away now . Incorporate a venturi?
    I changed from 2 to 3 vertical pipes to reduce this distance from abt 6-7ft so less visual disruption . This end is also where i have 3 8ft straight airhose so visual was never an issue.

  • cookcpucookcpu June 2012
    Posts: 462
    Thank you, Bro TS.

    Nowadays so hot,even I can't stand the heat. :)
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bros,

    This morning pond water temp is 25.6c 6am. :-D Air temp abt 25C.
    koianswers.com/discussion/download/7218/6am15612.JPG

    My finding so far; all the while using one Tsurumi 12t/hr on a 60T pond
    a) Smaller hole better , 1.5mm better than slit type or 3mm.
    b) 3 vertical better than 2 pipes. Even though 2 pipes generates strong spray and causes more water surface disruption. Not good for viewing.
    c) Higher placement of spray bar from water surface the better.

    Mike,

    i got 2 drilled 3ft 2mm hole 20mm PVC from earlier test. You can have it and use for testing. i can spare some clay for you to try FOC. Just sms me to arrange to collect.

    ts

    Post edited by lauts at 2012-06-15 10:15:47 am
  • StevieStevie June 2012
    Posts: 323
    Wow! Look like all of you are gaming for it.

    My pond is small I cant test. I have been using shower panel and the small outlets produce fine water shooting out like needles. I also have a shower head with multi spray and one of it is this massage needle spray. Those who use it will know that it is the finest spray you can get from these shower head available easily nowsaday. Here are the pictures. What I am saying here is we can use this shower heads as an alternative to the PVC pipe where space is a constraint. Can someone test on this?
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/7219/shower panel 1.jpg
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/7220/massage spray.jpg
    Also, as it sprays it produces strong wind.
    Post edited by Stevie at 2012-06-15 10:18:47 am
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Stevie,

    I was thinking the same thing after reading James post, more aesthetic look. One problem would be easier to clog up compared to long type as holes are spread over bigger area. I may give a try with my 2nd Tsurumi outlet

    ts
  • StevieStevie June 2012
    Posts: 323
    Yes, I think it will clog up easily but only if it has gone thru a filter cartridge like 5 micron filter. Here are the shower head. It is call misting spray.
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/7221/power-mist-spray-pattern.jpg
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/7222/cooling-mist.jpg
  • ShukriShukri June 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Very innovative indeed bro Stevie..........
    While cleaning the pond, you can actually take your shower and the same time.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    I can see it working for a smaller pond and smaller pump capacity.

  • StevieStevie June 2012
    Posts: 323
    It is a matter with multiple units of showerheads for bigger pump, bro TS.

    During bathing when I switch on from normal shower to mist shower I can feel the water cooler. No need to rub off the soapy water. It will wash off the soapy water from your body cleaner than rubbing down with your hands comprehensively. Dont try it on your little brother you can get org....
    :">
    Post edited by Stevie at 2012-06-15 12:16:12 pm
  • koilvrkoilvr June 2012
    Posts: 59
    bro ts, using one 12t/hour Tsurumi, how long is the pvc pipe used as spray bar with 1.5mm drill hole? I assume if the pipe is too long than the spraying power will be reduced.

    And may I know if your 60t pond incorporate a BS or TT filter as part of overall filtration system.

    tks bro
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    bro koilvr,

    3pcs 2.5ft 20mm. No BShower or TT . i think temp can go lower as i have 4Tsurumi and one 25t pump and 5 resun/hailea pump , all hot items. But pond fully covered with 2 layer 90% orchid black cloth .

    ts
  • mangkellmangkell June 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/7231/IMG_20120615_171431.jpg

    Hi guys,

    Aftr see details what Bro Lauts did, my hand got itchy & can't resist to try. I named it Tornado Showerpraybar Haa..Haa...Haa. 4 unit 2"pipe. 1to8 feet above wtr lvl. 2-3ft each 1cm c/center 1.5mm holes. Theory is 2"/50mm pipe deliver more pressure than 20mm on each small holes. Gutter shower is 10ft 500+holes? 8ft high. Result tmrow will post. Castlemilia koi pond is outdoor partial shade.

    Twicking the ball valve switches into 3 modes, Viewing mode-calm, Feeding mode & Tornado Cooling mode.

    After all, it depends on your MOOD! :-t
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • KoiBeginnerKoiBeginner June 2012
    Posts: 234
    Nice Showerspraybar

    PS* Admins should create a 'like' button like the on on Facebook. :D Hahahah!
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Aznan ,

    Trying to achieve winter temp in Msia ? :-)) :-)) :-))

    ts
  • JamesJames June 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Looks like my roof when it rains cats and dogs.... :-))
  • YipmYipm June 2012
    Posts: 194
    Bro TS, can you adv where you bought your thermometer?
  • MikeMike June 2012
    Posts: 346
    Lau, Thanks in advance. Will call you to arrange.

    Cheers
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Yip,

    Got mine from Eng Hin in Batu Caves and AkaKoi. I think you can get it in many aquariums too. A note , don't leave the probe in the pond as the kois will damage it . Also get a few so that you can get accurate temp info. Cost less than RM20.

    ts
  • YipmYipm June 2012
    Posts: 194
    Thank you bro Lau.
  • MikeMike June 2012
    Posts: 346
    Lau, I was about to ask the question of did you leave the probe in the pond as my koi pull the whole unit over ... :-(
  • mangkellmangkell June 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
    Post edited by mangkell at 2012-06-17 12:34:30 am
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro William,

    Most important is temp got effect or not ? IMHO two straight rows better , spray looks more tidy also holes spread over longer pipe rather than close together.

    ts
  • cookcpucookcpu June 2012
    Posts: 462
    I use those normal glass thermometer to measure, the temp show 32C.

    This one is to test out. Maybe I will make another one that is 5 ft in length with 2 straight rows.

    You mean the holes should be wider between each row of holes instead of close together.
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Suggest get 2 digital thermo , more exciting you can see the temp drop by the number :-D . Wider NOT between the 2 row but between holes in a row. Wider between 2 row only if you want to cover big area , more surface water disturbance . Not good visually.
    32C ? Thats very high bro :O

    ts
  • cookcpucookcpu June 2012
    Posts: 462
    Yes 32C is very high. Last few days, the kois just stay floating in the pond instead of swimming around.

    I have to find out where in Singapore got sell digital thermo with probe. Most Fish shop sell digital thermo without probe, like it just attach to the glass.

    Ok, I shall space the 2 holes wider. Thank you, bro TS.
  • mangkellmangkell June 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bro Lauts,

    I read U plan to buy another pump for another spray set 3 unit spray bar 2 row each. Why don't U try make 1 row 6 unit first? Much less cost. Experiment only Maa... Pipe is cheaper than pump lor. Unless space is your concern... Tq
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Aznan,

    I have another Tsurumi on venturi which i consider to convert. Reason being is having higher water output with 2 pumps maybe water can get colder than now max at 25.6C- 26.2C.

    Bro William,

    Those with probe( ie wire with probe end attached to main unit with reading) should be easily available from aquarium shops. Don't get those fully submerge ones , don't last. i am really crazy with thermos nowadays , i got 5 different types in pond and one outside to measure surrounding temp. :-)) :-)) My pond area is 2C lower too compared to elsewhere at my place . =D>

    ts
  • cookcpucookcpu June 2012
    Posts: 462
    Bro TS, 5 thermometer in your pond....hmm..since my pond is L shape maybe I need around that number of thermometer. hehe.

    I have seen a lot of thermometer that submerge in fish tank but hardly see any with probe..maybe I go to the wrong aquarium shops.

    I found the spray bar quite noisy so I turn it off at night. I might need to install a ball valve so that I can turn it on and off if I am going to install all 3 return pipe with spray bar. :)
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Earlier ones was analog la can guesstimate only , later get those digital ones for accuracy and excitement ma.

    ts
  • cookcpucookcpu June 2012
    Posts: 462
    I use those glass thermometer just now, put into the pond for 30 mins in the depth of 1 ft....the reading still 32C.

    I guess I have to redo the drilling of a new pvc pipe or my pump return is not strong as I notice the water spray about 2 ft away.
  • cookcpucookcpu June 2012
    Posts: 462
    Today, I measure the pond water and it is at 29.5C instead of 32C.

    I turn the spray bar off at 11 pm and turn it on at 7-30 am. I wonder will this being ineffective to cool down the water temperature.
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    32 to 29.5 already quite an improvement bro , what are the changes? It will take time to cool further. i think will definately cool further if turn on at night. No one has yet tried to explain the theory behind working other than evaporation, i think it is more than that.
    Bro suggest try running for 2 more days current arrangement to see max reduction then turn on at night 24hrs, i think will likely go down further.

    ts
  • cookcpucookcpu June 2012
    Posts: 462
    Bro TS, ok I will report back after 2 days of checking the temperature.

    Then run for 2 to 3 days for 24 hrs and see any different in temperature. So far, I only run 1 single spray bar.

    Maybe at later stage I try to run a 2nd spray bar and then a 3rd spray bar and see how low the temperature will go down to.

    I think it is due to conduction of the heat from body water to the air. If it is evaporation, I think we should see a loss of water after certain number of days. It is like bakki shower where water mixes with the air.
  • mangkellmangkell June 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Hi guys,

    Yes, I agree with Bro cookcpu, small water particles travelling at high speed airborne will transfer the heat energy to the air. Air conditions also use same concept maa, high speed gas.

    Before we proceed, 26°C in the water turned a 25.5 pond area temp. If we achieve 24 water temp, We need a winter sweater to sit nearby pond while our neighbours are sweating ...How???Looks weird Lor :-? Don't care lah.

    The theory to go is(Same as Bro Lauts...), plus some logic concept...
    1-The higher the better-longer airborne.
    2-The smaller the better-the hole drill. More surface contact.
    3-The faster jet is better. More heat release
    4-More volume is better. Cold water after abone will be colder aftr 2nd abone... etc
    5-Vertical is better. Wind travel horizontal, more contact with fresh air.
    6-More spray bar location is better-More source of fresh air.

    Aiyahhh... My foot can't stand the cold lah. at 26 already need some thick sock. If 24!!! Need a plastic rain boot lorr... Just my 1c Tq
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Vertical is better bro Aznan ? You mean like your gutter arrangement from say 8ft ? Something like a water curtain :/ ( similar to air curtain from Hiblow?) . Also this will be less disruption to viewing i think. :/

    On theory, i think conduction at night and evaporation in the day. At night when air temp is 24-25C , water at higher temp say 26C looses heat while afternoon temp at 33C encourages evaporation. This cooling keeps the water from heating up. But there seems to be a limit to the lowest temp achievable by this method , regardless of all the above, I think. :-? Bro HarryYew , something for you to calculate here , :-c :-c

    But i am not complaining and very happy with the 25.8C- 26.2 daily . The kois have bulked up easier without big volume of feeding and waste has been visually less too.

    ts
  • mangkellmangkell June 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Hi Guys,

    Just to update my new record is 24.7°C at 7:30am. Details in Castlemilia koi pond thread :O


    I think the TORNA-X™ got some more potential, maybe 1°C further down?. I notice a layer of air 4" above w/l, the temp is always 0.5-1.0 degree cooler than water all the time. Thinking... :-? Tq
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
    Post edited by mangkell at 2012-06-24 03:47:12 pm
  • cookcpucookcpu June 2012
    Posts: 462
    Bro mangkell

    You have reach a very good temp which most of us (non chiller pond) dream of.

    You have summarise a list of good point in setting up the spray. I guess I shall redo my spray bar base on your guideline.

    My temperature stuck around 29.5C.
  • cookcpucookcpu June 2012
    Posts: 462
    After I change to a new PVC pipe of 5ft long. The pond water temperature drop to 29.1 C. The only thing is the hole I drill is all over the place and I have to make a new one soon.

    Any of you guy coming to NHA show, if you do, I wonder I can ask you to buy one 30mm spray bar from AKA koi.

    How much does it cost for the spray bar sold by AKA koi.
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    24.5C ! Look like i can do better and achieve lower with another Tsurumi than my current 25.6C , keep it going lower bro Aznan :-)) .
    Just for info , how much water volume are you pumping thro the spray, Torna X etc ? relative to the pond size? Eg mine is 12 ton Tsurumi capacity thro spray bar for 60 ton pond.

    I am considering to do a slit type for next venture but unlike previous , now place higher, horizontal and only a few slit for power spray >:-) , problem is spray where to minimise viewing disruption.#-O

    ts
  • mangkellmangkell June 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bro Lauts,

    Really you wanna minimize those viewing disruption...

    Just follow me lor...

    Spray everywhere.... Don't want, divert all 100%. Want, just divert back... KaKaKa :-))

    Sorry Bro... I think no way to reduce that if U want a better result... for now lah
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
    Post edited by mangkell at 2012-06-28 04:11:56 am
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    To put it on auto on/off to coincide with viewing time is a good solution, bro Aznan. but ideally i will find a spot where viewing is not important since my pond is 26ft long , i can afford to give 8ft away ;-) . You should have no problem too with your castle bro.

    ts
  • JamesJames June 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Bros, the prototype of the aesthetically improved "torna X".... stainless steel..

    koianswers.com/discussion/download/7457/photo.JPG
    Attachments
    photo.JPG 101K
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Wah =D> bazooka bro James. Place vertical or horizontal ? The flat surface rather than round will give straight line spray , nice. But drilling will kill you , unless pro job :O Aaron's new invention ka .

    ts


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