How to use blagdon anti ulcer
  • smokersmoker April 2012
    Posts: 715
    Dear bros and sis,

    I read some good posts about blagdon anti ulcer here, and learn alot. anyhow, there are somethings i don't really understand.
    1 course = 2 rounds (1st day application and 4th day application, right?)
    1 round for 4 days?

    Within 1 course (2 rounds), must we change water? or it means we just add double dosage.
    if so, how if we need to change water within these 2 rounds, can we?

    Then, if we want to continue to 2nd course (3rd round and 4th round), must we change the whole water?
    And can we continue to 3rd round (8th day) and 4th round (12th day) without changing the water? will the dosage be too much?

    Thanks alot :).

  • ShukriShukri April 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Hi Smoker, before I use Blagdon anti Ulcer medication quite a bit. My practice before the next dosage is to change 30 to 50% water. After 4 days, the strength of the medication is almost nil.....
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • smokersmoker April 2012
    Posts: 715
    Got it! thanks bro Shukri.
  • rsingamrsingam February 2013
    Posts: 116
    Dear Bros & Sis,

    I removed my Koi with sinking disease from the pond and placed it in QT and added Blangdon Anti-Ulcer. On the 4th day I was supposed to replace about 30% water and add the 2nd dose of Blangdon Anti-Ulcer. When I checked the water on the 2nd day there was a spike in the ammonia and it was quite high. So I changed 100% of the water and re-applied the Blangdon Anti-Ulcer. Again on the 2nd day of application of Blangdon Anti-Ulcer there was a spike in the ammonia. What should I do?

    Regards,
    Rajasingam
  • lautslauts February 2013
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Rajasingam,

    You can stop feeding first in pond and then continue so in QT. Assuming not emergency case , apply AntiUlcer when the ammo is low/ nil. Never feed few days before , when medicating and few days after. The koi will be better off not stressed further in digesting food.

    ts
  • SengChoonSengChoon February 2013
    Posts: 443
    Bro Smoker,

    Blangdon anti-ulcer is meant to be 2 dose treatment with each dose lasting 4 days. However, the efficacy of this medication relies on 2 factors:

    i) Low ammonia present in QT water (Most important as high ammonia in water can be counter productive in the healing of the affected fish or sometimes it can also back-fired)
    ii) Low amount of salt present (i.e. at minimum at 0.3% or less)

    For each dose, you are not required to change water. But most of the time, water change is triggered by ammonia spike. Under such circumstances, I normally change about 40-50% water on second day and TOP-UP the proportinate dosage of medicine. At end of the the fourth day, I will change about 40-50% water also, but this time I will put the full dose of medication as I started the second dose.

    Hope that helps bro.
  • rsingamrsingam February 2013
    Posts: 116
    Bro Lauts,

    The koi was well fed in the pond before it was transfered to the QT. No wonder there was a very high ammonia spike upon medication. As it was not an emergency, in future I will take your advice and stop feeding the Koi's in the pond before transfering to the QT.

    Thanks,
    Rajasingam.
  • lautslauts February 2013
    Posts: 1,248
    welcome bro Rajasingam.

    As per advised by Bro SC , do a big water change ( 50% - 70%, water from original pond not tap) before starting 2nd dose at end of day 4. Even without feeding there will be some ammo present. Never add unchlorinated tap water direct in QT and dechlorinate in QT. Dechlor in separate container then add to QT. Reason: Ammonia in QT will react with chlorine in tap water to form Chloramine, this is bad. :O

    ts
  • jamiltjamilt June 2013
    Posts: 287
    Hi all, just to share

    I finished 2nd dose of Blagdon Anti Ulcer 5 days ago, and today I have a 1.0 ammonia reading. The water is cloudy as well. I guess Blagdon Anti Ulcer affects the good bacteria. However my koi is completely healed from serious gulping.
  • weihanweihan June 2013
    Posts: 318
    Hi bro jamilt, is all of your kois having gulping problem? I have a few kois that gulp, sometimes even jump up from water surface, while others remain OK, anyone can help?
  • jamiltjamilt June 2013
    Posts: 287
    Bro @weihan, only one koi at first, and then another 2, and then another 3. However none jumps or anything like that. just gulping.

    The 1st koi gulps 3-4 times in a 15 min duration. the others not so bad as they are at early stage.

    I first dose with malachite green (2 dose) - didnt work. Then jab the koi with 2ml ciprobay 3x 2 days apart - didnt work. Then 1ml panmycin 3x 3 days apart - didnt work. Then Blagdon Anti Ulcer 2 dose 4 days apart - all the kois recovered completely.

    However i have ammonia and nitrite problem now, and am handling it.
    Post edited by jamilt at 2013-06-03 11:56:09 pm
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar June 2013
    Posts: 1,763
    Get bacteria starter Bro. U also can use Pond Protect to tackle ammonia.
  • jamiltjamilt June 2013
    Posts: 287
    Bro TK already have. Thanks bro
  • weihanweihan June 2013
    Posts: 318
    thanks for the info bro @jamilt , rmb to change water as waterco filter is slower to cultivate bacteria
  • lautslauts June 2013
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Jamil,

    Thanks for sharing. As suggested by Bro TK, Pond Protect is good but you will need to do quite a lot of water changes after all the medications ie malachite , ciprobay etc got into the water. All these will destroy and slows down filter maturity.

    Just a thought why the AntiUlcer works when all the rest fail on gulping. Blagdon Antiulcer has Benzalkonium CHloride used in detergents and Koi Gill washs. ( Check Roccal gill wash) . Your gulping also consistent with koi trying to clear what is irritating them esp the gills. Did you check their gills to see if ok ?

    Good to hear they stopped gulping.

    ts
  • AnuarAnuar June 2013
    Posts: 688
    Hi Bros,

    Just wish to share that I have also used Misaki Anti Parasite medication which helped address gulping of one of my shiros. According to the dealer, this medication contains Praziquantel which is one of the active ingredients.

    But, the gulping came back after a couple of months :-(
  • lautslauts June 2013
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Anuar,

    Prazi , you suspect flukes esp gill flukes ? Gulping due to gill irritation maybe.

    ts
  • smokersmoker June 2013
    Posts: 715
    Just realized this thread is alive, thanks to @Bro SengChoon, @Bro Lau, and all Bros for helping and sharing the knowledge.

    My big karashi used to gulp a lot, and after treatment by Blagdon Anti Ulcer in QT last year, she has never gulped again.

  • gerrygerry June 2013
    Posts: 777
    Wow... how is the dosage like for this kind of treatment abang @smoker? This is very useful info :)
  • SengChoonSengChoon June 2013
    Posts: 443
    Guys,

    Just something on diagnosing bacteria gill disease (BGD) or flukes I normally use.

    In order to determine whether the gulping my fishes are experiencing are due to fluke or BGD, the process of elimination I normally use to determine which is the real cause is by checking whether all my fishes are gulping or only the selective few. Bacteria gills disease is not contagious, hence tendency for same fish to gulp is common. However, as for flukes, they will most likely attack my other fishes. Therefore, I may see fishes which do not normally gulp, will start to gulp.

    The above is just a rule of thumb I normally use to determine which treatment to start with so that I can get my fishes to the path of recovery fastest. But please note in general it works, but just watch out for exception occasionally.

  • lautslauts June 2013
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro SC,

    Thanks for sharing but i think you need to clarify "Bacteria gills disease is not contagious, hence tendency for same fish to gulp is common. However, as for flukes, they will most likely attack my other fishes." i think i understand what you mean but for other bros :/ :/

    IMO bac.gill disease (BGD) is very contagious esp if in small tank/pond like QT tank . In bigger pond maybe the spread is slower or not as fast as gill flukes irritation. Both gill flukes and BGD normally works in tandem, damage done by flukes , bact will attack.


    thanks
    ts
  • jamiltjamilt June 2013
    Posts: 287
    Bro @lauts, i did not check the gills, but will do this weekend. thanks. Bro @Bthineshkumar @weihan i am using Biozyme 100, by 4th day and the amonia and nitrite is under control. However the fish not eating due to biozyme i guess.
    Post edited by jamilt at 2013-06-06 10:29:25 pm
  • SengChoonSengChoon June 2013
    Posts: 443
    Bro TS,

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Let me clarify, IMHO, BGD are not contagious in the environment where water quality is good. BGD will be contagious if water quality is bad and this is very common for small tank or QT tank. The cause of the disease is not the bacteria alone but rather the environment where the fish is. Poor water quality will affect the fishes in contact and will thereon allowing the bacteria of BGD to attack as gills are dilated.

    I have attached here an article on BGD by the New York Department on Conservation for your reading pleasure. Although the article is not specifically on koi, the general facts from the research and studies made can be relied upon to draw the appropriate conclusions you need.
    Attachments
    BGD.pdf 105K
  • ShukriShukri June 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    VGD (Viral Gill disease) should not be overlooked as well.......... really very deadly!
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • lautslauts June 2013
    Posts: 1,248
    Thanks Bro SC,

    For sharing the article, looks like koi kichis reads the same thing :-D
    I think just like any bacteria infection, BGD is opportunistic in nature. Where water quality is poor ( high ammo, nitrite actually burns the gills ) , under filtered, there bounds to be congestion to the gills hence likelihood for infection is much greater.

    ts


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