Fishless cycle to combat and end NPS quicker while making it totally safe.
  • HDCuHDCu July 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    In a few weeks, my new pond will be complete and I will eventually transfer my kois from the quarantine pond to the new pond.

    In the meantime for months while the new pond is being built, the quarantine tank where the kois are still growing exceptional have finished cycled enough Siporax filter medium that will be eventually transfered to the bakki shower setup of the new pond.

    Basically my plan is when the new pond is complete, I will do a fishless cycle by doing the following:
    1. I will transfer 2 tons of quarantine water and mix with 20 ton new pond water(after it has been dechlorinated) and setting up the jap matt filters.
    2. I will transfer some organic waste from settlement chamber in quarantine filter to settlement area of new pond filter.
    3. I will run the pump and aeration of the new pond without any fish.
    4. I will then put a strong ammonia hydroxide drip to the new pond upto 5ppm to immediately build up strong colony of nitrosomas bacteria while monitoring that the PH will not go above 9( by controlling ammonia)but not below 7( by adding baking soda)
    5. I will let ammonia level reach dangerous levels without any water change or salting the pond or putting any nitrifying bacteria.
    6. As soon as nitrosomas bacteria colony brings down ammonia levels to the point that it can handle enough ammonia introduction, nitrobacter colony will multiple and nitrite levels will increase.
    7. I will wait until nitrite levels becomes very low which should be quicker as there is no water change and continuous feeding of ammonia to grow the nitrosomas and nitrobacter colony.
    8. I will monitor then nitrate levels which I plan to reduce by doing partial water change and adding some salt and putting the cultured glass sintered rings to the bakki while stopping the ammonia hydroxide drip.
    9. I will then transfer three kois per day and feed regularly.

    So what do you think? Will it work?
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Sounds like a Plan...........update us then if things are according to plan or otherwise. Good luck bro.........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro Shukri @ Mr. Forum Administrator,

    Is this forum capable of storing archive or discussions as notes? The quarantine steps as posted by bro HDCu above is a good example of something we might want to archive and retrieve later for reference. Another example is the note you posted on the nitrifying bacteria earlier today in another thread. If we have the archive system with proper filing folders, it will be easier than having to sieve thru thousands and thousand of postings to find all these useful references. Just my suggestion.

    Thanks.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro pandai,
    Point taken. I will discuss with the application designer, writer and programmer. In the mean time, you can always use the 'SEARCH' column on the upper right hand side.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-16 10:46:31 pm
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • weihanweihan July 2012
    Posts: 318
    Bro there is a bookmark button, point your mouse to the right side of the title of the discussion, that's it.
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Thanks bro weihan for pointing out........forgot about the Bookmark....
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • weihanweihan July 2012
    Posts: 318
    Bro Shukri, maybe the button is not obvious, can make it visible maybe?
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    How do you do that on iPad?
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar July 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro,
    You can do that once installed Google Chrome
  • idrisidris July 2012
    Posts: 1,182
    Bro hdcu..I still believe my way facing NPS using tilapia fish is still the easyist way...after soaking the pond with vinegar...fill up new water, put tilapia fish...feed a lot...don't change any water ang just let the nature do its job coz in few days time your NPS is over...drain all your pond water except filter chamber...fill up new water, put anti chlorine and let the system run for another night and boom..u can put as much koi as you want...I believe this method is very easy for those who don't have luxury time to monitor everything everyday...but then this is my opinion bro...

    http://www.koianswers.com/discussion/1422/short-cut-how-we-deal-with-new-pond-syndrome/#Item_23
  • HDCuHDCu July 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Idris,

    I do think your method is quite effective as you have proven plus you were able to have grill tilapia also. hehe.

    The fishless cycle is not entirely new as it has been successfully done in aquarium setup. A 20 ton pond is just a giant aquarium as well as such I do think it will work as well.

    The advantage of a fishless cycle is that
    1. you dont need to get a sacrifice test fish whether it be tilapia or cheap test koi
    2. you dont build up any phosphate or dissolved organics that lead to green water
    3. ammonia hydroxide is much cheaper than koi food
    4. nitrobacter and nitrosomas bacteria should grow fast as addition of ammonia is direct and not through breakdown of food by fish.

  • idrisidris July 2012
    Posts: 1,182
    ok bro HDCU..got your point...less cost but time consuming...please update bro on the progress..cant wait to see a video on your new pond...hehe
  • david3333david3333 July 2012
    Posts: 28
    HDCu,
    Your plan sounded complicated, with all those technical jargon. I am also preparing my new pond and I did not know it is so complicate, so many stages. I
  • HDCuHDCu July 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro David3333

    My plan is an experiment so I can skip NPS and green water. Its been done before in aquarium setups and I dont see why it cant be done in a 20 ton pond. The only important thing in the plan is the introduction of ammonia hydroxide and some old water from my quarantine pond to feed the growth of good bacteria.

    However, you can do the simplest way to introduce kois to your new pond. Just put them in, put 0.3percent salt, feed gradually until your pond filter matures while testing the water parameters. The cycle should take around a month to finish.
  • HDCuHDCu September 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Today, I refilled my new pond with 20 tons of water. I then placed 140 grams of sodium thiosulfate to dechlorinate. I then placed 150 grams of strong ammonia water into the pond(without any fish). After two hours tested the water and the reading was 7.4 Ph and as expected NH4 in the water is now 2mg/l with free toxic ammonia at 0.03. I also transferred two small net sacks of culture bioballs from the QT tank and placed it in the settlement chamber to jump start the growth of bacteria. Hopefully in three days the ammonia eating bacteria would populate the filter media so that they can produce nitrites. Will seed more strong ammonia water tomorrow.
    Post edited by HDCu at 2012-09-04 06:10:20 pm
  • pandaipandai September 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Try peeing in the pond... :-D
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • HDCuHDCu September 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Hehe. It would take two liters of pee for an equivalent of 150 ml of ammonia water. It would turn the pond yellowish. Reminds me of the time years ago why some of my garden plants were slowly dying until I found out the maid was collecting her urine everyday and dumping it on the plants. :-))
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur September 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro HDCu,

    Using fishless cycle require a lot of work and constant water parameter measure. When you nitrosomonas start to cultured, any ammonia will converted to nitrite at very fast time. When not measure properly, any lack of ammonia mean no food source for nitrosomonas and it will die.

    Been done this before on aquarium and pond, and unless can monitor it 24 hours, i find it too troublesome. NPS is something to scare new hobbyist,with proper start up, it can easily done. The main problem is usually a hobbyist cannot wait to start feeding, and dump every food when fish comeasking for food and lazy to measure water parameter.

    Greenwater is easily combating using UVC, and cloudy water is because lack of MF, not because of NPS. If your filtration is done right, your water will always clear like the first time you put water. Your biological filter should be mature in maximum 2 weeks times.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • HDCuHDCu September 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Harry,

    Actually im not scared to put my existing kois in the new pond. Its just that the end of the chinese ghost month is till September 15 and I will be traveling for the next five days after day. Because of this I am not allowed by HM and for practical reasons to put my existing kois from the QT tank in the new pond yet. In the meantime, I am taking this opportunity to do the fishless cycle to mature the pond and filters.

    In terms of work, I think on the contrary, it is the opposite. I dont need to put any zeolite ,salt or change water during the cycle or worst worry any fish flashing or parking. I have lots of access to cheap ammonia hydroxide and have some test kit that need to be used or else it mght expire. After the initial dose to 2mg/l of NH4 for the first day, I will just put an ammonia drip to the pond to feed and culture good bacteria. I will then wait for nitrite level to reach wine red in the testing and then wait for it to slowly and surely drop while nitrate level go up to above 20ppm. I will then do a 30 percent water change to reduce nitrate levels. Afterwhich I will put the culture glass sintered media which will control the nitrate level and do regular water change along with transfering the existing kois in the QT to the new established pond.

    My new pond has no UV setup. I believe I can go without any UV in my new outdoor pond setup.
  • idrisidris September 2012
    Posts: 1,182
    so i guess bro HDCU, you way to combat NPS is the best for your situation. hope it will mature fast enough...on my opinion, using tilapia still the best in any situation...just feed and feed until stable..no water change, no need to check water parameter..so what else is the constrain?hehe
  • ShukriShukri September 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Next time for me, when I built a new pond, I am planning to use a few Aropaimas for the NPS stage.......because I am thinking of 10,000 ton pond....... :-)) :-)) :-)) :^o
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.

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