Keep the deeply red color for Koi in-house pond
  • koikichivnkoikichivn July 2012
    Posts: 77
    Dear Sifu and Bro

    I hear that the kois which stay in in-house pond will lost its deeply red color from time to time due to leak of eating some kind of nature alge, isnt it? if so what kind of good we need to supply for our koi (in-house) pond to replace the nature alge ?

    Thank you
  • HDCuHDCu July 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Koikichivn

    I dont believe it is the algae that the koi eat that produce good beni although it helps. Sun light has UV rays that produce vitamin D that bring out the beni of the koi.

    My thinking is that one can try artificial aquarium lights( the one use in indoor marine live corals and not the ordinary flourescent light) plus spirulina enriched food and vitamin c suppliments. Warning: overexposure to artificial lights that simulate sunlight is dangerous to koi.
  • kensutantokensutanto July 2012
    Posts: 12
    Bro koikichivn,

    Yes, I think you are right. I have in house pond and koi lost the deep red colors. Over years turn to orange instead of red. Nature Alga contains Spirulina which make the red color and also sunshine.

    Problem is artificial aquarium lights only suitable for aquarium or small pond. Not for big pond. So no choice. Now I keep more koi with no red color.

    Wonder if there is any solution besides using artificial aquarium light ?
  • lautslauts July 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    If indoor pond kois lose their beni (red) due to lack of natural algae then i am sure spirulina can more than replace the nutrient loss of not having natural algae. i think it is the natural sunlight that causes the skin to naturally produces Vit D is to blame. Go with what bro HDCu explained.

    ts
  • richardrichard July 2012
    Posts: 11
    i agreed and mine also in-house pond. Currently trying artificial lights to try to brighten/deepen the red color especially kohaku and showa and yamabuki ogon.

    Currently i am using T8 fluorescent light but the inner bulbs i found/replaced a brand call "Nirox" Sun Bright (40w), main functions to intesifying the fish color and provide plant growth. Just tried few days hopefully evntually the color really can improve and i will update here again for sharing.
  • ashfaqashfaq July 2012
    Posts: 799
    Brother Hdcu,
    There are many types of light available, can you suggest some specific light?
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • HDCuHDCu July 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Ashfaq,

    Personally, I dont have experience with indoor koi pond as such it has to be experimented upon by those who have indoor ponds with regards to the number of wattage of light required, how many minimum hours per day and whether using metal halide or using special branded flourescent T8 is more effective. Maybe it is possible that indoor kois may even require some vitamin D3 supplements because they dont have the "sunshine vitamin" of outdoor kois.

    Its not really that difficult to grow algae in an indoor pond but whether growing wall algae in an indoor pond translate into better colors and skin quality for indoor koi needs to be addressed by those who have indoor koi ponds and feel the need to improve the quality if their koi's color and skin quality.

    Hopefully, some hobbyist would take the challenge of documenting the science of improving the colors of indoor kois and posting it here at koianswers for future references.
  • koikichivnkoikichivn July 2012
    Posts: 77
    Bro HDCu is right that is not difficult to grow algae in house but problem is we dont know exactly what kind of algae the kois need in its food chain.

    Bro richard, could you please show your pond and lighting system?
    Keep discussing about this topic, guys
  • HDCuHDCu July 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Personally based on my experience, its immaterial if its brown or green algae. My Qt tank which has been operating now for five months have only grown a few brown algae since nitrate level is consistently at just 5ppm,phospate is low as well while sunlight exposure is minimal. However, beni and shiroji of all kois have even improved from old pond that was demolished. I do think the vitamin supplements helps a lot.
  • yy988yy988 July 2012
    Posts: 62
    feed more color food
  • koikichivnkoikichivn July 2012
    Posts: 77
    Could you guys please write down some good color enhanced koi food you think it should help for inhouse koi pond? I wanna give it a try
    Thank you
  • MikeMike July 2012
    Posts: 346
    Guys,

    I am one that have a fully in-door pond. the real disadvantage of having a in-door pond is it cant retail (edit - retain )the shine and colour of the like of kujaku and ogons. As for the beni for kohaku, I do not see the deterioration of the colour on my kohaku but my showa does turn to light orange, maybe its the gene . Im feeding saki growth and colour mixed for 2 month and wheatgerm only for a month and rotate. I did have 3 unit of 4 feet aquarium light shining down my pond 4 inches from the water level.
    Post edited by Mike at 2012-07-20 01:56:48 am
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    With an indoor pond, possibly varieties like Koromo, Goshiki, Orchiba and Kujaku should be more likely candidates over Gosankes.

    Else, you can always rotate your fishes, one month indoor and the next outdoor pond and so on (if you have two ponds la).
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • koikichivnkoikichivn July 2012
    Posts: 77
    Hi Mike

    Could you show us your pond?
  • MikeMike July 2012
    Posts: 346
    Koikichivn, will snap a few and post soon ...
  • MikeMike July 2012
    Posts: 346
    Here u go ...

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/8308/1.jpg
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/8309/2.jpg
  • kensutantokensutanto July 2012
    Posts: 12
    Wow..... This is really fantastic indoor pond. Never see a pond like this before. Wonder how long you have this pond ?
  • MikeMike July 2012
    Posts: 346
    Hi Kensutanto,

    The pond has been in operation for a year and a half. Planning on a bit of a pond reno soon. Algae is not growing (Only a very light hue os greenish) even nitrate is maintained at 40 to 80 ppm :-( and I would have to paint the pond matte black with PU paint and some plumbing works to be carry out.

    I will have to swim in the pond whenever I bowl the koi out as they will hide under the concrete slab and inaccessible to the net.
    Post edited by Mike at 2012-07-21 07:24:58 pm
  • raymond_ongraymond_ong July 2012
    Posts: 90
    Hi Mike, what a very nice setup indoor pond you have. Got a very space age looks. Like them very much.

    Can i ask a few questions regarding indoor pond? I have a friend with a 36 tonnes indoor pond, his filter is located outside though. He has a problem with this small flying insects from the pond. I recommended to him using dimilin, but it seems the soluion is not long term. He tried put in guppies, but it didn't work out. Do you face this problem, if yes, may I ask how you deal with them? Thank you
    Post edited by raymond_ong at 2012-07-23 10:42:55 am
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    The insect in question is called Midge flies. You might think they are mosquitoes initially but if you look carefully, they are different. In the larvae stage, they are bloodworms. No matter what you do, they will make a come back. These insects arevery resilient. The following options will help combat against the pest creatures:

    1) Diligently wash your brushes, Japanese mats and your bio filter materials and your chambers regularly.

    2) Ocassionally use Dimilin or other parasite medication into your pond.

    3) I like this option as it is cheap and no much of a chore. Spray the filter chambers with a WATERBASED insecticide spray. This is OK and does not hurt your fishes.

    4) You can install water jets in your filter chambers

    5) Move from the Tradional filtration to a Bead filtration. Midge flies problem will be solved.

    Or you can always vacuum the flying midge flies........

    Regards...........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • gerrygerry July 2012
    Posts: 777
    Vacuum???? :-))
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    I have a feeling that the whole reason for the write-up is actually driving the point to Option 5.... :-D

    Anyway, with regards to using water-based insecticide spray, I remember once a thread on coakcroaches. I had huge problem with them one time and water-based spray doesn't seem to be effective enough. I finally had to resort the super-strong roaches spray. I was praying hard that they would not affect the kois and luckily it didn't. Kois seems undisturbed but the entire roaches population is now gone...! :-D
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • MikeMike July 2012
    Posts: 346
    Hi Raymond,

    I do agree to Bro Shukri method on eliminate the midge flies.


    1) Diligently wash your brushes, Japanese mats and your bio filter materials and your chambers regularly. ( Once a month )

    2) Ocassionally use Dimilin or other parasite medication into your pond. (Spray it on the chamber wall)

    3) I like this option as it is cheap and no much of a chore. Spray the filter chambers with a WATERBASED insecticide spray. This is OK and does not hurt your fishes. (Tried and no problem with the koi)


  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro pandai, you are a real batu api one....... :-)) As you can see, that option is no. 5 and not no. 1. :-D If I would have planned such it would be straight forward......and not that subtle like in this case......... :-)) :-D

    Why don't you asked me how am I doing? How's my back? How's the Midge flies problem, still have or not? And how I feel about the hobby now.....etc etc.....

    You got the drift bro? ;;)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro Shukri,

    Actually, I prefer the hard labour. It's the least amount of exercise I could get on weekly basis. You see; the more exercise I do, the healthier I get. And the healthier I get, the more I enjoy my kois - the fruit of my labour... :^o

    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Sure bro pandai...........I really envy you laaaa! :^o :-))
    If you feel that I am getting to be too lazy, just call me to watch
    you clean your filter chambers. And I can chat with you while
    you are doing the much needed exercise....... (rock)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-24 12:08:40 am
  • mangkellmangkell July 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bro Mike,

    Your light, what is the rated category?

    Indoor pond suitable for a T9 rated light. They'll really highlight your Kohaku red. They are also a permanent effect, not because of 24/7 switch on but, they carry the power of Solar/sun... :-D
    Good algae can feed from them also.. Tq

    Sad thing is, no space for TOR-X™ there.. :-(
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
    Post edited by mangkell at 2012-07-23 10:38:12 pm
  • koikichivnkoikichivn July 2012
    Posts: 77
    Hi bro Mangkell

    What brand of T9 you have mentioned about? I am using led lights but I think it is not strong enough, do you guy think the regular MH light ( its usually used for outdoor adv board) is OK?
  • mangkellmangkell July 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bro Koikichivn,

    T9 is a rated categories. Brand Shanda 40watt good for a 6feet aquarium arowanas.

    Best part is they can also submersible. We can submerse 2 feet below water. Koi can swim above & below it.

    Prolong use will benefits the chilli red of my maruyama kohakus permanently..

    For TOR-X™, the T9 are their high beam 8-)
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
    Post edited by mangkell at 2012-07-26 07:12:48 am
  • MikeMike July 2012
    Posts: 346
    Hi koikichivn,

    The light i am using is the same as Bro Aznan's. Im using 3 unit of 4' for my 10 tonne pond.
  • kumarishnakumarishna July 2012
    Posts: 90
    Bro Mangkell, (handshake)

    Can you share some picture of your pond and your T9 setup.
    This will be good to share as I'm also a Indoor pond owner.
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur July 2012
    Posts: 808
    Metal Halide or arowana submersible lamp can be used. MH can penetrate deep into water and create good viewing too.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur


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