Is it necessary to quarantine your new acquired KOIS?
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    This has been debated since day one of the koi keeping hobby. I have been there, many have been there! Not quarantining the newly acquired kois that is.........During the initial period of the hobby, I too have gambled by not quarantining the kois, and guess what! Hurray, the kois were OK, no existing kois gotten sicked! I was just plain lucky that very few times. And then again, why should I quarantine right! Many people like me did the same anyway.........that was what I thought and I know many people thought the same as well..........And if they got sick, I have the medications anyway.....This was the Self Fulfilling prophecy that I have or many of us have.......

    Then the inevitable happened, the kois parked, clamped fins and red veins...........Ah Huh! I put in the salt (they said put 0.3%). Didn't have the salt meter, so AGAK2.......however the kois health worsen, now I started to panic. I add S1 (just put it in.....how much? I don't really know! Just put it in........it looked green enough, so it should be OK! The kois didnt get better, some started flashing and some gulping at the pond surface........Now starting to press all panic buttons.....Ah huh! People say bomb the pond with PP! So I bought PP, and put the maroon medication in the pond. I was told to put in a pail first, and then into the pond. After half hour after putting the PP in the water, the fishes became skimmish! One has jumped out of the water, a few have leaped out of the water. And by this time I was clueless as what to do next........I was beyond the panicked state........I can't sleep at night, and really do not know what to do........I am so pressured and stressed out that I could not do anything but thinking what medication to put next since my kois are not well.......
    Guys, all these actually happened to me before.......and I bet the same happened to many of us when we first started. I have promised myself that I will not NOT QUARANTINE my new acquisitions ever, quarantining is a MUST!!!

    To cut the story short, there is no substitute to quaranting new acquired fishes...........this is a must as we do not know what the new fishes bring? Parasites? or Bacteria? Fungus? Viruses? Or possibly combinations of these or worse, all of these??? By not quarantining, you are actually putting a TIME BOMB into your pond............

    So do not give 101 excuses why you do not want or need to quarantine your new acquired kois, but rather give yourself 101 reasons WHY YOU SHOULD QUARANTINE your newly acquired kois. Please make all nights as pleasure sleeping nights.

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    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-23 12:07:25 am
  • ythyth July 2012
    Posts: 118
    Bro shukiri,totally agreed,i lost 20 high end kois 2 years back when i put a newly acquired shiro to my pond,costly and painful experience,bro deen know my story for this :),quarantine,quaramtine,quarantine,never take it easy,its a must,if not,no one will know wat is the consequences..........
  • mangkellmangkell July 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Dont worry Bro Shukri,

    Now we got Kenkona, can Quarantine the whole pond with every new comers. HeHe :-D
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    I know Captain said to quarantine with Kenkona in the quarantine tank, but I do not believe as a sweeping statement he said to quarantine the new fishes together with the existing fishes in the pond.......The consequences is too great bro!

    And Bro yth, can feel your pain..........ouch!!! Real painful indeed and sorry about the lost.....
    Belum kena belum tahu!!! Kalau dah kena baru tahu........Jadi kalau belum kena tu! Baik quarantine so that TAK KENA..............kalau tidak menangis tidak berlagu..........
    Crying without melody..........Oh my English!!!
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    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-23 12:09:36 am
  • ythyth July 2012
    Posts: 118
    bro shukri,lepas kena,takut nak beli ikan baru:),you never know the kois didnt carry the deadly virus that every koi hobbyist takut,unfortunately, i kena once hahaha
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Touch wood! Are you refering to the KHV?...........God, please do not tell me........
    Is my suspicion correct?
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    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-22 11:45:54 pm
  • ythyth July 2012
    Posts: 118
    almost wipe out,dealer call to our famaous breeder ask for remedial action,special medicine flight in,not working,local top dealer come to pond to help,also cant,the kois one by one die like nothing!nightmare,almost give up this hobby.........now,whenever buy kois.....ask for 21 days quarantine period,tak cukup lagi,individual koi quarantine 2 minggu lagi,balik rumah....salt kaw kaw cause if anything happened to my current collection that bro deen posted earlier,i have to say goodbye for this hobby forever...........haha
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Dear Koi Community,
    This is a Testimony given by someone who has gone through the pain of his top grade kois almost being wiped out. Reading this has given me the goose bumps!!! I surely would not want a similar situation to happen to me nor to the wonderful community here.

    Remember the 21 days quarantine period by the Dealers, and to quarantine thoroughly when you bring the fishes back home...........

    Bro thy, if I have not wish you before, a warm welcome to Koianswers Forum, thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing the episode with us here. I hope your expensive and painful lesson will be a stern reminder to all of us as not to take quarantining lightly.

    Thank you once again bro.......

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  • ythyth July 2012
    Posts: 118
    Bro,thanks for your welcome,being the silent reader for the past few years,just decide come up to write after got some kicks haha,by the ways just to share more here,nowadays whenever I request the dealer to prolong the quarantine period they will say I am so takut mati,yes,I takut mati cause they never know wat so call koi mati...... Do you ever see a koi swim to front of you,Flip over and dying with slow breathing??do you?Do you feel that u don't wat step to the pond when you comeback from work?cause you don't know how many dead body you will net out?do you?no one will syampathy you!dont hope from compensation!no way!someone ask me send to upm to autopsy,I just ignored cause can't help!no one will responsible!do you see a survive koi with the tail fin all gone?body bengok!do you ever see ulcer,bgd,finrot,dropsy all disease happened at one go?bro,better don't go through this,I feel wat to cry from my heart at that time!pls avoid all this by doing quarantine!especially when you buy from small breeder,unfortunately I lost all my photos at my old phone,if not can post here to share,.,,,,,,thank you
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Thanks for sharing bro! :)
    Let all of us here learn from your expensive and heart out lesson......... (sweat)
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  • smokersmoker July 2012
    Posts: 715
    Thanks for sharing Bro Shukri and Bro Yth,
    100% agree. To maintain this hobby, there's no short way. Quarantine for any new kois from any source, is a must.
    We might be ok for couple times, 10 times, or maybe 50 times, but when you get the lottery, it will probably make you give up this hobby.
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur July 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro Shukri and others,

    IMHO, there 2 case scenario, first fish already sick when you put in pond, second fish is healthy and been quarantine before. For first scenario, we understand why, but how about 2nd scenario???

    Sometimes many hobbyist cannot tahan to buy fish, bring back and then directly put in pond. Sometimes it is ok, but sometimes it don't. I experience this many times because i do maintenance for cust ponds. Many cust bought fish andd put directly without even consulting with me because they did before and ok. Fish seem healthy, eat eagerly when cust buy it, after put it in, also start to swim and looking for food and seem nothing will happen, but it is happen.

    Why this thing can happen? Many hobbyist will start to blame the dealer for selling sick fishes, this is possible, but we would not buy fish that don't move, fin clamp, have any sign of sickness, right? Then how this happen? IMHO it is because fish stress, with possibilities as follow :
    1. New fish stress during shipment and/or stress during introduce to new environment with different water parameters
    2. New fishes got bullied by older pond kois and stressed out
    3. Old fish got bully by new fish and stress out

    As we know, our closed system pond contain A LOT of bacteria and pathogens, and i believe bro David also once post the total coliform from lab test. When fish stressed out, it is more susceptible to get sick, and most pathogens are opportunistic, it will attack and multiply very fast, and when it get too much, all the healthier fishes got affected too.

    And when this happen, most hobbyist will start dumping anything inside their medicine cabinet, and this will make fish more stress. And checking every minutes will even make fishes more stress. Usually in this event (whether have new fish introduce or not) is to check water parameters, and if everything ok, then start to analyze the fished condition, what is the sign and symptoms, there are many diagnosis chart available on the net, to analyze it.

    In case of this situation, i usually use malachite plus (malachite green+formalin) + antibiotic. Some have suggested using pp, this can but have still continue with other medication, because pp strong oxydizer, it will kill any pathogens in pond, but not in cyst stage, and pp work short time, when it turn brown,it have no use anymore. When the cyst hatch, you will have the same situation and fish got worst.

    My final word is please do QUARANTINE the new fishes, until it stress relieved and it adapt to new water parameters. Most pathogen cyst will hatch below 1 week temp 28-30, so it is ensure the new fish didn't bring any pathogens. Beside that,quarantine is also mean to inspect for lice and deworm. If everything ok, fish can be introduce to pond,
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Harry,
    Thanks for chipping in.......We need to drum in the message more so that the Hobbyists especially the newbies will not take quarantining new fishes likely. :)
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  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro Shukri,

    Perhaps it is good to share within this thread, the proper quarantine procedure for newbies like me to learn. What is minimum duration recommended, minimum water volume so as not to stress the koi, medication to be used, minimum filter setup etc. Also the pros and cons of quarantine at dealer's pond or own pond. Thanks.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • abunuhaabunuha July 2012
    Posts: 25
    Can i know what is the correct way to quarantine the kois...?
  • muzamirmuzamir July 2012
    Posts: 254
    How about if we get the fish from other hobbyist "healthy" pond? do we still need to quarantine them or just do a simple short bath?
    thks
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Dear Koi Kichis,
    I would not want to steal the thunder away from the quarantine Guru (Bro Seng Choon). I will let him share his secrets on the success of the Qurantine Procedures.

    Bro Seng Choon, can you take it from here.

    And to answer your question bro Muzamir, even if you have gotten a fish from another hobbyists, it is still recommended that you quarantine. The reason being is that if your pond pathogens and bad bacteria content is lesser than the kois that you gotten from the other pond, your own kois could be at risk due to the pathogens from the new fish that they are not accustomed to.......

    If I am in the above position, I will not take the risk........the consequences that I can do without.

    Welcometo the Forum Bro abunuha.
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    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-23 09:15:10 am
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar July 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Thanks Bro Shukri and Bro Yth for sharing a painful experience. This would help newbie like us to be more careful and understand the importance on Quarantine.

    Bro Shukri,
    Would like to understand whether my approach is correct.
    I only buy new fish from Yamakoshi penang.
    If I buy new arrival, after 21 days quarantine period, I would ask them to keep for another 2 weeks. When collection, they would do a short bath on PP and pack in yellow powder before I collect.
    Once I reach home, i would place the plastic bag with Koi on top of the pond for 30 min. Later transfer the fish in small tub (around 50 l) with air stone. Would slowly top up pond water until the tub is full (would take 1 hour). Leave the Koi for another 2 hours before transfer into the pond.

    Thanks in advance.
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro TK, that is not enough. So far, I must say that you have been very lucky. What if your new acquired koi has gill flukes or BGD? Or internal bacteria infection? You need to do your own proper quarantine procedures. Let's wait for Bro Seng CHoon to share his vast experience with regards to quarantine procedures & process.
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  • idrisidris July 2012
    Posts: 1,182
    bro muzamir...although the koi is from other healthy hobbyist pond, you still need to quaratine it..i have receive few kois from captain borman and abg shukri pond but still quarantine it..but my method and captain is diferrent..we short bath the koi using kenkona short bath dosage for 1 hour then can put into main pond..

    never had any problem before this but maybe because kenkona and we have uncle ong with us..but frankly speaking do not took any chance just quarantine it...
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar July 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro Shukri,

    Message noted ^:)^
    Would wait for Bro Seng Choon advice....
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Idris, it is very wise of you to not skip proper quarantining. Do not put a time bomb into your pond. Difuse the bomb first before you do.........Learn from bro yth, myself and other experiences. Do not cry without a melody..........
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  • gerrygerry July 2012
    Posts: 777
    Agree with all the comments and advices above.

    Another thing I want to ask.... how do you curb your excitement in wanting to see the newly acquired babies swimming in the main pond as soon as possible? ;;)

    I always fall victim to this and tend to release my kois under quarantine earlier than should be.... #-O
  • muzamirmuzamir July 2012
    Posts: 254
    Abg Shukri, Bro Idris,

    All your point noted with thanks. Possibly my 2T indoor pond will be used as my QT in future.
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Sis Gerry, you have to have a strong heart and perserverance........you have to feel........cruel to be kind........and patience...........
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    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-23 02:48:33 pm
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar July 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    My favourite quote: "cruel to be kind" (Y)
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Very true bro.........I know of a fella who asked the kids to walk to school during those days i.e. to teach them the value of hard earn money........His kids hated him then, but now how they treasure their dad, what he has done for them that molded what they are now.......

    We nowadays spoiled our kids with luxuries, cars, expensive clothing etc eventhough they are still school going kids............this is not a healthy trend.......but I did these too! :-( :-( :-( and am not proud of it.........
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    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-23 03:13:21 pm
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar July 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro Shukri,
    We have no choice. Those days, I walk like 2 km to bus stop and take public bus to school. No worries.
    But now, even if you're in-front of your house, you are bags are snatched and so many issues :O
    I practically have to move to guarded community due to safety of my family...
    As such, we are prioritizing safety for our kids by spoiling them :-(
  • yy988yy988 July 2012
    Posts: 62
    Prevention better then Cure..
    banghead
  • lautslauts July 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bros ,

    In our hobby , QT is the most difficult matter to tackle. Even to QT or NOT is questioned @-) . Matters are made more complicated as many koi sifus does not QT. Issue is why risk our entire collection and years of hard work over some new kois ? I would rather have dead new koi while in QT than dead kois in pond which i have kept and nurtured.

    It is very difficult to keep good water while in QT , cos the many medication we use to treat also causes havoc to the QT system. My biggest issue is differentiating between water issues and actual diseases even with my microscope. I basically follow what proposed by Seng Choon , principle is clear the kois from disease before it clears your pond. The latin for Ich ( white spot) is called " fish harvester " 8-x 8-x , afraid ? be very afraid.


    ts
    Post edited by lauts at 2012-07-23 04:02:39 pm
  • ChengAunChengAun July 2012
    Posts: 925
    Uncle @Shukri,
    Because both my dad and grandfather served the Malaysian Army, they both restrict me and siblings to buying expensive things often as a discipline. (once in a while got lah but under budget) As my grandfather says: By spoiling your kids, you kill them faster. Most of my friends at school even the young ones using iPhone and Blackberry already :-| "Money doesn't grow on trees" they say :-))
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
    Post edited by ChengAun at 2012-07-23 04:29:56 pm
  • mangkellmangkell July 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Yess...

    My Sifu always said, QT kow kow...

    & also enter Oh My English class kow kow...

    Good for Ah Mad & Ah Kow :-D
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • JamesJames July 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro Daniel Lee and I can testify to the importance of quarantine. Collectively we lost I think close to 30 show kois. But I think it is not a matter of whether the koi is healthy. Rather a question of what baggage the koi brought with it.

    A koi that can live well with an equilibrium of bacteria in a previous ecosystem does not mean it would in a new. And the existing equilibrium in our ponds can be thrown out of whack by the bacteria baggage the new koi brings. Parking, flashing and clamped fins are mere mild indications of the problem. These are not as severe, but enough to keep us watching into the pond 24/7. Watching is fine, but for the wrong reasons... hmm.. very stressful.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau July 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Quarantine or not quarantine? Definitely Quarantine. Period.

    But I'm guilty for not quarantine for long many batches which I do not encourage any hobbyist to follow. Yes, I use Kenkona Koi as short bath. Yes, it is easy. And yes, it is cheap. But you must know the risk involved.

    In my line of work, we always focus on threat and error management. Buying a koi is a thread. Buying a koi with health problem is an error. Releasing a koi with short bath is a threat. Releasing a koi after a long quarantine is still a threat. Releasing a koi without any treatment is an error. Either way, you must manage these risk, threat and error. Looking at my duty pattern, if I want to quarantine fully under strict monitoring, I will end up not buying any koi or buy only when I have a long leave.

    Definitely I'm not suggesting anything but I am just being very practical. I'm also trying to be realistic. Our job spec is different. Hobbyist experience also different. Some don't even have quarantine equipment. Many even lost their newly purchased kois due to bad water quality in quarantine tank. So how now?

    Personally, I pray hard nothing happened every time I bought a new koi. I will never buy a koi with health issue regardless of how beautiful the koi is. I don't trust dealer's quarantine process as they have too many kois in pond. Unless you bought the burning pocket koi la :-D

    So when I don't have long off days, I would go for 1 hour short bath with Kenkona Koi. Why not PP? It's too strong n stressful especially for small koi and the PP short bad is too short to cure anything, IMHO. I lost a tossai before after soaking in PP for only 2 min(with correct dosage). The koi got dizzied even after I released into the pond and went back to Japan shortly after that. Worst still if hobbyist use agak2(guessing dosage) base on the colour. Same goes with salt bath.

    When I use short bath, I'm aware of the threat and I have to know how to manage it. Anytime I noticed an abnormality to the new koi or housed kois, I will never hesitate to treat the whole pond. You can use any medication base on what you see and observed. If I noticed any developing ulcer(reddish scale, light bleeding), I will net and jab with antibiotic. But treating the whole pond normally worked for me. Once I even treat with 2 round of treatment.

    So that's how I managed the risk. Most of the time, 9 out of 10, the new koi and housed kois were fine. BUT PLEASE DONT follow my way. I don't have a choice. If you have the available time and proper equipment, please quarantine your new koi properly. No question about that.
  • JamesJames July 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    I think more key is buy from a trusted and responsible dealer. And don't buy just because price is low. 1 good price piece takes with him/her 10 other pieces, works out more expensive ma!!!
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Yup, when you do the Maths..........expensive and heart ache some more!!! X(
    For me, after what I have been through........there is only one way........Quarantine is
    a BIG MUST!!! If I can't do it, then I will not buy........
    But thanks to a close friend that always oblige to do it for me, else I will never buy.
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    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-23 09:58:13 pm
  • mangkellmangkell July 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Yess Bro IKK,

    So far only 3 method for a Viable Whole Pond Treatment:-

    1-Salt
    2-PP
    3-Kenkona ;-)

    Tq
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro mangkell,
    You have many kois that have already flown back to Japan. I hope the three steps work for you........ :)
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  • mangkellmangkell July 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bro Shukri,

    Water shortage got nothing to do with QT.

    Unless there is a Koi Hotel nearby... :-D
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • mangkellmangkell July 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Errrrrr....

    Water shortage with a 40% daily dry up rate... World record lah yaa... :/
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Once and for all, plug that bloody hole or crevices that are causing the leakages.........
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  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro Shukri; a question. Is it a must also to quarantine in the same water as your own pond? I'm just wondering if it is just as effective to quarantine in the dealer's pond as some people would do, or better still, a friend's pond. Isn't it that one of the reasons for quarantine is to get the fish to be used to the unique condition of our home pond and water? Or did I misunderstood it that even after the dealer's or other pond's quarantine, you'd still have to quarantine in your own pond? Please advise. Thanks sifu.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • spidyspidy July 2012
    Posts: 13
    Buy from trusted and responsible dealer ?!?! It is not enough, I am still struggling to treat my pond of koi after I introduce a new Shiro from Nippon.

    Now I have a whole pond of sick koi because of "trusted and responsible dealer".
  • mangkellmangkell July 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Please don't blame the dealers alone. [-X

    They must do their job, we also must do our part...

    & Don't blame TOR-X™ also... :-D
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro pandai,
    You are real sharp as a person. In theory and being practical, what you have said is very true. One must use the pond water to be put in the quarantine tank for the quarantine period to be effective and complete. Not using the pond water is not truly eliminating all the possible pathogens that are in the pond. This is true my friend.

    In my case however, it is very different. Over the years, Seng Choon and myself have exchanged fishes and pond water, and eventhough it is two seperate ponds, it is actually very similar. The good, the bad and the ugly that he has, I have the same too. What is in our pond are about similar, strange but true. Have been like this for many years. My situation is very unique.
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  • harry_luhurharry_luhur July 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro Spidy,

    Sometimes in every wort situation we always looking for scapegoat, but we still have have to analyize all situation before jumping into any conclusion. Even with enough fasting period,fish keep producing ammonia from its metabolism, ammonia secrete through gills, and this can cause more stress to fish.sometimes we also put it hours in the car, and when weather hot, it lower your do level and cause stress also. Me and Yamakoshi team currently testing a water conditioner to prevent this and comewith good result, on last testing, we put 2 fish in plastic bag, and leave it to room temperature, and after 2 days, no sign of stress on close inspection, after 3 days, both fish show a little stress sign, and we release it but fish survive and no problem so far.

    My quarantine method so far as follow :
    1. When received new fish, i immediately open, put some water condition to calm fish, reduce its stress and reoxygen to fresh water oxygen. Bursting pure oxygen to water also help to increase do level, and make fish getting better fast.
    2. I put a bag in room temp for 15 minutes before float in quarantine tank for 15minutes.
    3. Open bag, release thhe fish to quarantine tank that already treat with water condition.
    4. Leave it for 24 hours, darker lighting better to give fish a good rest time.
    5. On 2nd day, i begin to inspect fish behaviour, especially fish skin for any infection, lice, etc.
    6. If any sign of infection, treat it. If not let it be, just do 2-3times 5% water change to remove ammonia build up.
    7. At 4th days, if everyting ok, then start feed a little food, prefer easy digest one like wheat germ. Continue to monitor and do water change. Giving a bit food wwill help fish to get its stamina back.
    8. If new fish fish ok, fasting it for 1 day and the release to pond the the 8th days.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Thanks bro Shukri and bro Harry for very good tips. I think for some of us (speaking of myself mostly) it is the constraint of having a proper quarantine facilities which is the main reason. In my case, all I have is a small tub and a small package filter. I noticed that the fish is normally noticeable stressed after a while in the Qt (T=tank, t=tub!) and some even starts banging on the wall of the Qt everytime I took a peek inside. They were also not swimming as usual.

    I think the obvious solution is still to setup a proper QT and follow the strict quarantine regime. It will not eliminate 100% of all possibilities of disease but will definitely mitigate the risks.

    Here's something I found on the internet on quarantine to share:

    http://www.pondexperts.ca/quarantine_procedure_new_koi.htm

    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur July 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro Pandai,
    Checking in every minutes will make fish more stress lar, try to inspect from a long distance if necessary.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar July 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    It's the Koikichi virus... :-)) :-))
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro TK, you too got bitten by the bug oso!!! :-))
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-24 07:18:41 pm
  • david3333david3333 July 2012
    Posts: 28
    Shukri,
    How long should I quarantine new fish? How to know the new fish is ready to go in the pond?

  • idrisidris July 2012
    Posts: 1,182
    Nice info...
    Post edited by idris at 2012-07-24 09:29:07 pm
  • ChengAunChengAun July 2012
    Posts: 925
    Normal what, I also when qt any of my koi, constantly go outside to check :-))
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro David,
    A real good question. Even the seasoned hobbyist will not be able to guarantty that fishes is 100% OK before putting them into the pond. What we can do during quarantine is to be thorough and ensure that all possible pathogens are being eliminated before putting the kois into the pond. During quarantine, best is to use the pond water as a baseline medium. Then need to ensure that the new fishes are not carrying any parasites, fungus & bacteria. The choice of medication is also vital here. A good medication is a broad spectrum one that kills all of these........Quarantine with salt alone is definitely not sufficient as there are parasites and bacteria that are immuned to certain levels of salt.

    When our quarantine is proper, then we are reducing the risk of infection of the fishes in the pond.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur July 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro CA,
    I did that a longtime ago, keep checking won't cure but make it worse. After put medicine, i cover thetop, so it darker and they recover faster.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • farikfarik July 2012
    Posts: 317
    Bro shukri,
    i mentioned that i collected my marudo gin rin soragoi just few days back....decided to go with the kenkona bath 1 hr.... but in my heart was still going for qt...luckily that i did....today the koi had a patch of fungus growing....around its dorsal fin !!!!so luckily it is in my qt...so back to basics....

    Capt,
    maybe the short bath wasn't enough....1 hr at 1.5 ml in 50liters....correct dosage right??
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Farik,
    Short cuts are huge gamble.........if people are willing to take the risk, then they should have alternative plans in the eventuality.......Remember that you are dealing with a time bomb....
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau July 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Farik,

    For 50L water, the dosage is 1.25ml only. Short bath for 1 hr.

    Full quarantine will always be the best solution. In my case, I can't guarantee the water quality in the QT is good. The water in QT sometimes could be the caused for the stress and problem for the koi.

    Long time ago, I had an Asagi which I have quarantined for a few days. After I came back from my 2 days flight, it also affected with fungus and reddish skin. When I checked the water parameter, the Ammonia and Nitrite present. So ether the water or the koi was having problem. As usual, when I purchased it, the koi and the batch in the dealer's pond was in good condition.

    So if you have good quarantine set up which can assure good water quality, please by all mean, quarantine your koi.
  • farikfarik July 2012
    Posts: 317
    Capt,
    thanks for info...will go through the normal qt regime....tq

    Bro shukri,
    this is why i don't want to buy new kois....but what to do....very itchy after culling....ha,ha
  • wyinwyin September 2012
    Posts: 78
    Hi Sifus,

    what will be an ideal setup for a quarantine facility for 2-3 40+cm or smaller koi, assuming there is no sign of sickness when acquired? in terms of
    1. Dimension and volume of Q tank?
    2. Filtration system, flow rate and air stone placement?
    3. Temperature?
    4. Shaded from direct sun light only or fully covered in dark?
    5. water change or dripping?
    6. use pond water or tap water?
    7. any salt and medication?
    8. any other
  • ShukriShukri September 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Seng Choon,
    You will be one of the person to address this? :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • rsingamrsingam January 2013
    Posts: 116
    Bro Shukri,

    On July 2012, under this topic discussion you mentioned (Quote)

    "Dear Koi Kichis,
    I would not want to steal the thunder away from the quarantine Guru (Bro Seng Choon). I will let him share his secrets on the success of the Qurantine Procedures.

    Bro Seng Choon, can you take it from here."


    I have searched the Forum and have not found any article on Quarantine procedures from Bro Seng Choon. If I am wrong can someone direct me to Bro Seng Choon's arcticle. If not can Bro Seng Choon please enlighten us with his secrets of a sucessful Qurantine Procedure.

    Thanks and regards,
    Rajasingam.

  • gerrygerry January 2013
    Posts: 777
    Hi bro Raja, check out the topic title "Reminder To Quarantine" pg 3. Bro Lau pasted bro Seng Choon's procedures there... ;)
    Post edited by gerry at 2013-01-22 12:05:13 am
  • rsingamrsingam January 2013
    Posts: 116
    Tks Sis Gerry.
  • gerrygerry January 2013
    Posts: 777
    No probs! :D
  • SengChoonSengChoon January 2013
    Posts: 443
    Hi guys,

    I was just asked by Bro Shukri to share on QT. Sorry as I am currently very busy at work. If you can give me a little time, I will try to address all your questions tonight after work. FYI, the QT procedure given to Bro TS Lau has gone through some modifcation and I will share with you a more refined QT protocol tonight.

    Thanks for your patience.



    Post edited by SengChoon at 2013-01-22 05:19:52 pm
  • gerrygerry January 2013
    Posts: 777
    TQ Bro Seng Choon! Looking forward to it.... as it is I have one baby Shiro in quarantine! :D
  • SengChoonSengChoon January 2013
    Posts: 443
    Hi guys,

    Sorry for this long overdue posting. Before I start, I would like to emphasize that all hobbyist should quarantine their newly acquired fishes or fishes that come from a different environment, be it a different pond, FGT, aquarium, etc. There is no such thing as a safe fish, or fish without parasite or pathogens. These parasites or pathogens may be dormant and will be active when their environment changes. It is then they will attack our fishes.

    Over the years I have develop 2 broad quarantine (QT) regime for purposes of ensuring fishes that goes in my pond are clean and free of infectious diseases. The use of each of the 2 QT regime is dependent on the temperature of the environment the fishes comes from eg. chilled water to non-chilled water and vice versa.

    QT Regime 1- Fish Originate From Similar Temperatured Waters

    The first QT regime is normally used on fishes that come from SIMILAR temperatured water (with a slight variation of 3-5 degrees). This QT regime was the one shared with Bro TS Lau previously as below. However, I have modified and updated the QT regime to include latest available medication in the market.

    1st week (6 days to 8 days)
    PARASITE & FUNGUS TREATMENT to kill off anchor worms, lice, flukes on the new fish
    - Use either Methylene Blue (2 doses, 3 days apart) or Dimilin (2 doses, 5 days apart, effective for parasite only) or S1 / F1 (daily with a 30% to 50% water change for 5 days and at 0.3% salt at least) (for anchor worm and lice) or Prazi (one dose for 6 days) or Tricholoromethyl Phosphate (2 dose in 2 days) (flukes) or Speedy Heal by AquaMeds (use with at least 0.3% salt kills parasite and fungus together)
    - Type of treatment will depend on where the fish is coming from i.e. mudpond, dealer, friend's pond, etc. Normally, it is best to kill off any parasite, especially gill flukes, as they may be the cause of infections, gill diseases or they may attack open wounds or damaged fins. Also, best to monitor for ammonia spike if the fish was heavily fed before coming to you.

    2nd week (8 days)
    INTERNAL BACTERIA TREATMENT to kill off bacteria that may reside within the new fish
    - Use 2 doses Interpet Internal Bacteria or Ocean Free Super Koi Internal/External Bactericide or other internal bacteria treatment e.g. Melafix (dosage will vary). This treatment is normally 4 days apart. Salt level should be 0.3% or more, unless there is formaldehyde in the meds
    - Another option is to use Blangdon Anti-Ulcer, which is best to be used without salt as it contains formaldehyde. This is also a 2 dose treatment at 4 days apart
    - Another option is to use Befuran or Befuran-G, which is required to be used with 0.3% salt. This is also 2 dose treatment.
    - When you use any of the medication, please monitor for ammonia spike as these medication will tend to clean intestines of the fish and hence, they will purge whatever is in their gut. This will lead to ammonia in the water to surge.

    3rd week (6 days)
    EXTERNAL BACTERIA TREATMENT to kill off any bacteria that may reside within the skin or scales of the new fish
    - Use 1 to 2 dose S1, F1, Befuran, Befuran-G, Ocean Free External Bacteria Treatment, Kenkona, Malachite Green, other general aid med (normally greenish yellow in colour) and etc for 5 days. Dosage varies according to meds used. Advisable to use with 0.3% salt.
    - Alternatively, you may yellow powder. But please note that yellow powder dose varies according to water volume. The base dosage is 1-2 gm for 100 liters of water for 24 hours. Salt should be at least 0.3% when using yellow pwoder. I normally use this quite sparingly as it is quite expensive to use it daily.

    Lastly, before transferring the fish to the main pond, I would advise all to do a PP dip for about 2-3 min. Dosage for PP Dip is normally twice the normal dosage or more i.e. normal dose is 2 g per tonne and PP dip should be at least 4 g per tonne and above.

    That is the protocol for QT Regime 1 for fishes that originate from similar temperatured waters. I will continue with QT Regime 2 for fishes that originate from different temperatured waters tonight as I have to settle some work now. So stay tuned.

    Post edited by SengChoon at 2013-01-23 11:20:28 pm
  • KChongKChong January 2013
    Posts: 348
    Bro Seng Choon,

    Really intensive QT regime but agreed that it should be practice by all koi hobbyist. Prevention is always better than cure.
  • HDCuHDCu January 2013
    Posts: 1,117
    Would the recommended quarantine procedures be applicable to kois returning to pond after a koi show?
  • lautslauts January 2013
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro HDCu,

    I think for kois returning from show , i would apply part not the full procedure. Maybe just the antiparasite 1st step and PP before going back to pond. The antiparasite meds like MGF would take care of some of the bacterias as well. For new acquisitions , full procedure lasting more than a month with few days rest period in between. Since my previous misadventure some time back i have been using an adapted procedure of bro SC's , it has work very well.
    Lengthy but i see no point to risk all our collection for few new acquisition :) :)

    Bro SC , was is this new "different temperatured waters" protocol @-) . Another few month in the QT @-)

    ts
  • rsingamrsingam January 2013
    Posts: 116
    Bro SengSoon,

    On the S1 bottle it says the dosage is 1ml to 1 litre of water. Should we follow this dosage?

    Regards,
    Rajasingam
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar January 2013
    Posts: 1,763
    Sir Raja,

    The recommended is 1 liter for 1 ton but that's too much concentration. Normally I'll use 1 liter for 3 ton. If needed, I'll add in another 500 ml

    Cheers
  • rsingamrsingam January 2013
    Posts: 116
    Bro TK,

    Most shops advice you not to follow the dosage on the bottle but I always wonder if the medication is effective if the recommended dosage is not followed.

    Regards,
    Raja.
  • Awong81Awong81 January 2013
    Posts: 23
    Bro TK

    I am also confused about your statement that the S1 is too concentrated. Any reason to justify that? It will save us some $$ but I hope not at the expense of its effectiveness.
  • MfwleeMfwlee January 2013
    Posts: 355
    There are 2 threads on QT already, and it is not my intention to fan matters further but simply to ask for an opinion from our experts. This probably comes from a different angle to the issue of QT.

    I come from the school where medication is seen to be a " only necessary when positively idenfified " basis. As such, my system is also simple - I utilize 3 F/G QT's and my new purchases ( I buy in batches for each F/G tank ) are then kept for a minimum of 4 - 6 months before I even consider putting them into the pond. The only addition to fully treated water and 10 - 20 % water changes every 2 -3 days, is 0.03 of rock salt for the first few months.

    So far, and I may be the lucky one, I have not had any problems with this system - but am I a disaster waiting for a place to happen ?

    Incidentally, and again I may be the lucky one, I have also never had an issue with my new fish. Everything put into the F/G tanks have been ok.

    My question is, yes, the 4 - 6 months will catch any fish that is sick, but does it mean that a fish that has thrived for ( minimum ) 6 months in the F/G tank considered safe ?
    Mike Lee
  • ShukriShukri January 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Mike Lee,
    What if the fish is a carrier? The fish will not demonstrate any symptoms but once put in the pond will in fact infect the other fishes. So by doing preventive medication helps a lot in cases similar to this...........IMHO.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • MfwleeMfwlee January 2013
    Posts: 355
    Yup, agree with you on " carriers " bringing disaster into a pond.
    Maybe it is because I buy in batches ( normally 6 - 8 in one shot ) for each tank ? - being a " pond person ", I have never bought solitary fish, and my risk is therefore lower unless the whole lot were carriers ?
    Conversely, does it mean that each and every new fish of ours should be fully sanitized ?

    Mike Lee
  • SengChoonSengChoon January 2013
    Posts: 443
    Bro HDCu,

    In order to determine which QT protocol to apply on kois returning from koi show, you need to know whether the koi was placed entirely in show bags or placed in tank ie. whether the koi is exposed to other water source other than the water where the koi originates.

    If there is no foreign water source, you need need to the final week protocol (ie 3rd week protocol). My suggestion is just put the koi in yellow powder for a couple of days and observe her behaviour. The koi should recover very fast and will be looking for food in no time.

    If there is foreign water source involved, my suggestion is to apply a dose for anti-parasite, 2 dose of internal bacteria treatment and soak her in yellow powder for a final few days.

  • SengChoonSengChoon January 2013
    Posts: 443
    Bro Rsingam,

    The dosage on S1 is correct. In other words, the dosage is 1 liter to 1 tonne of water. My opinion is that S1 is very effective when you follow its dosage. But what it does NOT advise you is that you need to change about 40%-50% water daily and re-apply the dosage daily for 5 days (for QT).

    The rationale behind the water change is that when you use S1, fishes will tend to purge feces. And when they purge, you will have ammonia spike. If you do NOT monitor the water condition, the water together with S1 can turn to poison for your fish. So in the end, it could turn counter effective.


    Bro Awong,

    You can save S1 by reducing dosage to topping after the first dose instead of just the full dose. But please note that this is QT at a very mild rate only, which is useful if you have fishes that are very senstive to S1 or the fishes are feeling the sting of the medication (which is the beauty of S1). So some parasite or pathogen may not be killed, unless you extend the QT duration. But at the end, it may just come to the same thing.
  • SengChoonSengChoon January 2013
    Posts: 443
    Bro Mfwlee,

    I believe there are 2 school of thoughts on medication - "medicate only when necesary" and "prevention is better than cure". It is up to individual to pick their type of "medication".

    For me, I would choose the latter as I have had a few bad experiences throughout my years in koi keeping and I dread those days where I am awaken by the slightest sound for the fear of my koi jumping out of my pond.

    IMHO and I hope you don't mind me being blunt, I believe you are lucky so far. IMHO, I believe your QT protocol is effective but NOT exhaustive. The approach of treating fishes that react in QT is good but this may apply to a wide range of pathogen and parasite. But there may be some that do NOT react in QT until the fish experience temperature changes e.g. fungus, parastic fungus, gill fluke, etc. So I believe its better to take precaution than encounter an outbreak later.

    I hope you understand where I am coming from.

    (P/S: Have a read at Bro Awong's experiences in the other thread under "Reminder to QT")

  • SengChoonSengChoon January 2013
    Posts: 443
    Bro lauts,

    I always believe that QT should be sufficiently long but NOT TOO LONG. My QT protocols are normally capped from 3 weeks to 1 month only. On average, 3 weeks should be more than sufficient to detect if your fish has any disease, parasite or pathogen.


    Dear all,

    FYI, The new "different temperatured waters" protocol is an alternate to the QT Regime 1 ie. you only pick one or the other. Not both.

    QT Regime 2- Fish Originate From DIFFERENT Temperatured Waters

    The second QT regime should be applied on fishes that originate from DIFFERENT temperatured water (with huge temperature variation, >5 degrees). This QT regime is applied to address fungus, parasitic bacteria infections, velvet and sleeping disease that may lead to fish experiencing systemactic bacteria infection and discolouration. The proposed QT regime for this is:

    1st week (7 days)
    Treatment for fungus, parasitic infection (including gill flukes), velvet and sleeping disease
    - Use either S1 / F1 (daily with a 40% to 60% water change daily for 7 days and at 0.3% salt at least) OR 3 doses of Speedy Heal by AquaMeds (each dose is 2 days apart) OR 3 doses of Befuran Plus (both use with at least 0.3% salt)
    - Best to monitor for ammonia spike if the fish was heavily fed before coming to you
    - Observe for slime or foam on water surface to determine if additional dose is required

    1st/2nd week (3 days)
    PARASITE TREATMENT to kill off any stubborn parasites (e.g. anchor worm, flukes, etc)
    - Apply one dose Ocean Free Anti Parasite, Methylene Blue or Dimilin
    - Observe for fish flashing or scratching. If the behavious still exist, then proceed with second dose

    2nd/3rd week (8 days)
    INTERNAL BACTERIA TREATMENT to kill off any bacteria that may reside within the new fish
    - Use 1 to 2 dose Ocean Free Internal Bacteria Treatment, Blangdon Anti-Ulcer (best to be used without salt as it contains formaldehyde) and etc for 8 days. Dosage varies according to meds used and usually is a 2 dose treatment with 4 days apart (which equals to 8 days). Advisable to use with 0.3% salt.
    - When you use any of the medication, please monitor for ammonia spike as these medication will tend to clean intestines of the fish and hence, they will purge whatever that is STILL in their gut. This will lead to ammonia in the water to surge.

    3rd/4th week (6 days)
    EXTERNAL BACTERIA TREATMENT to kill off any bacteria that may reside within the skin or scales of the new fish
    - Use 1 to 2 dose Ocean Free External Bacteria Treatment, Kenkona, Malachite Green, other general aid med (normally greenish yellow in colour) and etc for 5 days. Dosage varies according to meds used. Advisable to use with 0.3% salt.
    - Alternatively, you may yellow powder. But please note that yellow powder dose varies according to water volume. The base dosage is 1-2 gm for 100 liters of water for 24 hours. Salt should be at least 0.3% when using yellow pwoder. I normally use this quite sparingly as it is quite expensive to use it daily.

    Just before transferring the fish to the main pond, I would advise all to do a PP dip for about 2-3 min. Dosage for PP Dip is normally twice the normal dosage or more i.e. normal dose is 2 g per tonne and PP dip should be at least 4 g per tonne and above.

    Lastly, please note that the QT regimes shared are not exhaustive and may not be consistently effective due to the changing variables within different environment. Also, I would like to higlight that I do NOT claim the QT regimes are the best, but rather I am sharing my regimes based on my past experiences only and it may change as new diseases or variables emerged.
    Post edited by SengChoon at 2013-01-23 11:21:02 pm
  • rsingamrsingam January 2013
    Posts: 116
    Bro Seng Choon,

    Just curious to know why Kenkona which is a cheap and effective medication and easily available via online order is not used anywhere in your Quarantine regime.

    Regards,
    Rajasingam
  • SengChoonSengChoon January 2013
    Posts: 443
    Amended.

    Thanks for pointing that out Bro Rsingam. Totally slipped my mind. Have not had enough sleep lately. :-D
    Post edited by SengChoon at 2013-01-23 11:22:16 pm
  • Awong81Awong81 January 2013
    Posts: 23
    Dear Bro SengChoon

    Thank you so much for the explanation. No wonder the water starts to stink after a week even though I did not feed at all. Well, not smelly, but you can smell a stench. I have just done a 50% water change for some fishes in the QT. I am a staunch believer now that prevention is better than cure. The 4 fishes I bought from last December were from 3 farms, arriving at the same day at my local dealer. Took the fishes I picked prior to arrival within 3 days of its arrival. The 1st fish died pretty quickly. Now the fish from the same farm exhibiting disease (dropsy, fungal infection, ulcers, etc). I am very worried whether the other 2 that came together and the whole pond may be at risk now. I would prefer not to risk it again in the future. Sleepless nights ahead.
  • MfwleeMfwlee January 2013
    Posts: 355
    Bro SengChoon - don't get me wrong - I do not for one moment champion the treat only if sure school !
    It is just that my 4 Dainichis are being prepared for the pool, and they would by then ( March 2013 ) have had 6 months in their own tank, and been accustomed to my pond water ( next to their F/G tank ) because I have been scooping water from the pond into their F/G tank every 2 - 3 days when I did the before mentioned water changes.
    Yes, I can imagine the nightmare of bringing tragedy into our ponds, and the amount of despair and frustration that this will result in.
    Thanks for your advice. :)
    Mike Lee
  • rsingamrsingam February 2013
    Posts: 116
    Bro SengChoon,

    I need further guidance on your statement Quoted below:

    1. When I change 50% water daily in the QT, do I apply S1 based on the 50% water changed or based on the total water in the QT ?

    2. If there is no spike in ammonia or if the ammonia is zero after the first day, do I still have to carry out the daily water change for that day ?

    Thank you.

    Regards,
    Rajasingam.




    Quote from Bro SengChoon:

    "The dosage on S1 is correct. In other words, the dosage is 1 liter to 1 tonne of water. My opinion is that S1 is very effective when you follow its dosage. But what it does NOT advise you is that you need to change about 40%-50% water daily and re-apply the dosage daily for 5 days (for QT).

    The rationale behind the water change is that when you use S1, fishes will tend to purge feces. And when they purge, you will have ammonia spike. If you do NOT monitor the water condition, the water together with S1 can turn to poison for your fish. So in the end, it could turn counter effective."

  • boykoiboykoi February 2013
    Posts: 186
    hlo bros,

    im realy getting some good read here.thanks for all the sharing of regiments on qt and koi health,i have much to learn.

    in my case,i have a trusted dealer who does qt for me.1 month or more before i get the kois.suffieciently enough,the kois seem healthy and totally slim being not fed formore than a month.what i do is i bathe the new kois with Paraguard by Seachem for an hour on my measuring tub. Its quite a strong solution. Then after i just place the fish slowly on plastic with pond water and existing water for a few minutes before release. I do a 20pct waterchange on my pond before that. I do this bathe as for me,it seems that the kois will be stretched out exhausted if i repaet the regiment properly after more than a moths treatment from the dealer. So far so good.

    but my question is,am i doing it right?a month or more on qt from dealer, then just bathe them when theyre home?how long can a koi sustain a continued qt regiment?im just a newbie here regarding qt regiments
  • Md+FahamiMd Fahami November 2014
    Posts: 32
    Salam and Good day to all the masters here.

    First of all, I've been reading this forum for a while, being quite late to this hobby due to a lot of constraint previously. Now I have myself a small koi pond and hope that I can pick a lot of things here.

    On Quarantine procedures, I asked the shop to do quarantine for me, being a nubis and for lack of proper equipment and medications. Previously I did not do any quarantine on my previous fish and so far so good. After reading the discussions here, I'm now aware that Quarantine is crucial..

    My question is, is it enough to do quarantine at the shop. The shop quarantine is 2 weeks (which seem too long for me but too short for a proper quarantine a la the pros here). Once I received the fish I plan to float the bag on the pond for about 30 minutes to normalize the temp. After that I will put the new fishes in my kid's plastic pool with the pond water inside it to make the fish become accustom to whatever bacteria, or germ or kuman in the pond's water. after that I will perform short bath with kenkona koi for 1 hour (with accurate dosage of cos).. after that i will release the fishes to the pond..

    Is the above acceptable? As for the pond, I do not plan to do anything to it..

    Hope any master here can help me.
  • HDCuHDCu November 2014
    Posts: 1,117
    My rule is whenever i introduce a new koi, the new koi and the old koi in the pond are not to be fed for at least 48hrs before and after the new koi is placed in the pond. With regards to quarantine, i let the dealer quarantine then quarantine in circular blue tub with cover with pure oxygen and a safe and proven broad spectrum antibiotic and antiparasite for 2 to 3 hours before introducing the new koi to the pond.
  • Md+FahamiMd Fahami November 2014
    Posts: 32
    Thanks for the reply bro..

    I do not understand the pure oxygen parts, do you pump oxygen to the tub?
    As for the antibiotic and antiparasite, do you use any particular brand?

    Thanks
  • HDCuHDCu November 2014
    Posts: 1,117
    Yes. I always have a big tank of pure oxygen near my pond which I use whenever I bowl out a koi or when there is no power. Pure oxygen is diffuse with a 6inch fine airhose and helps the koi recover from stress from travel and during quarantine. Sometimes I use elbagin sometimes I use seachem's pond healthguard.

    "Pond HealthGuard™ is a safe disinfectant to promote the control of parasitic, bacterial, fungal, and viral infestations of fish in ponds. It contains no malachite green or other dye based disinfectants that can discolor or quaternary disinfectants that foam. Used as directed, it is safe for fish, plants, and the biological filter. A 2 Liter size treats over 4,000 gallons.

    Fish and plant disinfectant for pondsPromotes the control of parasitic, bacterial, and viral infections of fish and plants in ornamental pondsContains no malachite green or other dye based disinfectants that can discolor the water or quaternary disinfectants that foamPrecaution; safe for most fish under most circumstances, since use of any treatment is not without risk, it should not be used carelessly1 Liter treats between 2000 to 4000 US gallons"
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2014
    Posts: 1,053
    As salam and good morning bro Fahami,

    Since you hv mentioned Kenkona Koi, I think I have to come in. ;-)
    I am not that long in this hobby but certainly I can say that all kois need to be quarantined. It could be the dealers or ourselves. Quarantine procedure will def varies from one to another. Most importantly, how good is the water quality during the quarantine process? In many cases, due to bad quality water, it will add more stress to the new kois and it makes things getting worse. From healthy but slightly stress koi(new enviroment), it can become sick koi due bad water quality and reduced defence level.

    I for one worried and have faced this problem plus I am not always at home to carry out partial water change of my quarantine tank. My quarantine tank is not always running to keep the bacteria in place. Therefore short bath has become good solution. Not to guarantee 100% (as nobody can), short bath method has given me 100% good result so far, thank God. What you did is exactly what I hv been doing for many years. Only once or twice, when I bought many kois at once, I will do short bath and treat the whole pond.

    But if you ask me, no single quarantine procedure is absolutely suitable to all hobbyist due to many various factors. Risk will always be there. To start with, always buy a healthy koi from a healthy batch at the dealer's.

    Regards.
    IKK

  • Md+FahamiMd Fahami November 2014
    Posts: 32
    Thanks Capt...

    I think most of us face the same constraint, i.e. time.
    Product like Kenkona Koi do help us in overcoming that.

    Previously I never quarantined my koi and so far so good.
    After reading all the stories and experienced here, this time I must make sure that eventhough I cannot do like Bro Seng Choon / Bro Shukri method, I must make sure that there is some quarantine procedures done.

  • lautslauts November 2014
    Posts: 1,248
    No point to risk your pond collection for some new kois. Pls QT , if you don't only time before it hits you big time. We have sifus of many years giving up for this reason.

    ts


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