Pump
  • scorpio88scorpio88 August 2012
    Posts: 5
    Hi,

    I am currently using Tsurumi 50pu2.4s... But the break down rate is very high, with loud noise and causes my pond water to heat up. Use less than 2 years. Is there any pump more reliable to recommend me? Thanks.
  • gerrygerry August 2012
    Posts: 777
    Hi Scorpio88,

    You can try Waterco. I'm currently using it now and it has been working fine! ;-)
  • gerrygerry August 2012
    Posts: 777
    Oh wait.... is it a water pump or air pump you talking about?
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    That is a Tsurumi water pump.....quarter hp.........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • grinkz01grinkz01 August 2012
    Posts: 530
    i am using tsurumi pum also 40 pu series and not having experience as mentioned...so far so good....i am not so sure about heat matter but about frequent breakdown maybe due to worn out mechanical seal.....tsurumi brand having a very good reputation.....

    in indonesia, there is popular brand recently...bossco, a taiwanese brand....very long warranty period and the agent is koi hobbyist too....
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    When I started this hobby, I used Tsurumi pumps then and were reliable since they were manufactured in Japan previously. These days, all are made in China, and not as robust as before. When don't you try the Jebo pumps, very reliable in my opinion, and the prices are cheap too. Does not heat up the water that much as compared to the Tsurumi design.
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  • urbaneffectsurbaneffects August 2012
    Posts: 134
    Offer Jebao high flow 45,000L/H and 55,000L/H water pump. Very reliable & powerful. Price is cheap too compare to Japanese pump. Pls PM or SMS 016-8891606 for details. Thanks
  • scorpio88scorpio88 August 2012
    Posts: 5
    Hi,

    All my Tsurumi pumps are made in Japan. Maybe I got no luck
  • scorpio88scorpio88 August 2012
    Posts: 5
    So any jebo pump comparsion with 50pu2.4s?
  • KChongKChong August 2012
    Posts: 348
    Hi Scorpio,

    May I know whether you use your current pump for tickle tower or any waterfall? Besides, is electric consumption one of your concern?

    I have one model that is 26,000L/Hr but it is not suitable for tickle tower or waterfall.

    If you are not in hurry, I can source for you.
  • kensutantokensutanto August 2012
    Posts: 12
    Tsurumi pump is a very good and reliable pump. I have used this pump for 12 years and still running now. This one is made in Japan. Tsurumi omni U. I use only one tsurumi pump to run my pond size 12 ton + 4 ton filter total 16 ton. I find this pump very efficient as it is only 150 watt.
  • wongyengwongyeng August 2012
    Posts: 238
    I bought a Hi Blow which blew up literally right after I purchased... switched to Tsurumi and has been working since. The seller tells me that Hi Blow used to be made in Jipun but now outsourced to Cina. Apparently Tsurumi still made in Jipun (correct me if I m wrong)... It's damn unfortunate that Cina products quality like crap :( and more unfortunate that almost everything is made there now !!! X(

    Anyway, there are other products that are made in places like Italy that are also quite good like LEADER. As for Taiwan-made products.... well, from personal experience, they work well for a while but cannot last as long as the Jipun brands.
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro, didn't you get a replacement for your Hi Blow? Tsurumi air pump has the reputation for sure? And you are quite right that they are still made in Japan, but not Tsurumi water pump though, now being made in Cina. BTW, Hailea air pumps are reliable and good. The first Hailea that I have used lasted more than 8 years without failure or changing any components. And the 2 Hailea HAP 120 is running fine.............
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • wongyengwongyeng August 2012
    Posts: 238
    Bro Shukri, I changed the Hiblow to Tsurumi bcos it blew up just 2 days into use :D
  • cookcpucookcpu August 2012
    Posts: 462
    Is Tsurumi a air pump??? Or Hiblow is a water pump???
  • wongyengwongyeng August 2012
    Posts: 238
    Hiblow airpump... but all my water pump is Tsurumi or LEADER.
  • megatronmegatron August 2012
    Posts: 832
    Last week, I replaced my old Hi-blow 80 to a brand new Hailea HAP 120. Pond water temp drop by 0.5C to 27.5C. I believe more aeration may also help to bring down the water temp.
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • wongyengwongyeng August 2012
    Posts: 238
    Bro Megatron,
    I thot the jacuzzi effect should actually bring water temp up ?? :)
  • mangkellmangkell August 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bro Megatron,

    I agree with Bro Wonyeng. Any Air pump which used diaphragm will increase water temperature by half degree. Your drop must be bcoz something else, rain etc...

    Hail Megatron...
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    What bro Megatron said have some weight.......because the HAP 120 is a strong blower and definitely has the potential to reduce the water temperature.

    If you see how strong the disturbance at the surface of the water caused by the turbulance, then you can see why the end result is 0.5 degrees less for Bro Daniel.
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  • megatronmegatron August 2012
    Posts: 832
    Yes. It is really sound peculiar. To explain it, my 4 years old Hi-blow 80 has actually heated up could be due to time to change the diaphragm. I have 2 pumps, 1 goes to TT & another goes to Spray bar but because of my small pond, I am unable to place it vertical but horizontal 6" above water level only. It doesn't give much effect, only able to maintain temp at 28C. Right below the spray bar & TT, I have 2 aeration (HAP 120 & Resun 100). It creates a strong current to my koi to exercise. I can only bring down my temp lowest at 27.5C so far.
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro mangkell,
    I hope that you can help and assist Bro Megatron why he is not as near in achieving the results as yours. 27.5 degrees that he has gotten is no way near your 24.5 degrees. Hope you can share your expertise to help diagnose and assist Bro Megatron. I am confident with your dedicated help and support, in no time, his spray bar will reach the temperature levels similar to yours...........
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  • mangkellmangkell August 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bro Shukri,

    I don't want to be a Crab Father who want to show a Sifu how to walk properly.... HeHe... :-D

    They are already flying long time ago...


    Who am I?

    I'm THOR-OX™ :-t , Will answer to a call if there is any.... Like Bro Smoker....

    Remember, Great Power comes with Great Responsibility.... :-"
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Megatron,
    How's the temperature of your water with regards to the spray bar? I hope things are getting better. Looks like no external help and assistance coming your way....... :-(
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  • megatronmegatron August 2012
    Posts: 832
    I am reading along here and there in few threads how our bros doing with the spray bar. I just did and changed a smaller holes spray bar @ 1.2mm yesterday to see whether it can bring down the temp but this morning check on the temp still remain. The theory is high does matter. 6 inches horizontal may not be able to bring down the temp further in my case.

    We can have good temp as low as 24C with spray bar but water splashing every where especially small pond not to mention the noise. I shall think of the best method to resolve the splashing issue n yet achieve the best result. Anyone? Pls share !
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • idrisidris August 2012
    Posts: 1,182
    bro megatron if your pond is similar lenght with my pond, than splashing will be the problem you never solve. although you controll the spray lenght, you just cant get the best out of it..spray bar is best to be install to a pond that have sufficient lenght..if the pond are small, then just forget about it. anther problem is the turbulance, wave the spray bar create at your pond surface makes you hard to monitor your koi...i only notice my koi got ulcer when i turn off my spray bar...thats why i dismantle it already...just my 2 cent..

    bro mangkell- i believe in this forum, sifu or no sifu, we share the same objective which is knowledge sharing...if a newbie guiding a sifu regarding the things the sifu dont know i dont think this is a problem...here, we do not compete, but instead sharing the best information for us to grow together...just my 5 cent..
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Idris/Bro Megatron,
    Is it correct if I say that one of the factors why the spray bar managed to decrease the water temperature is through the process of evaporation, and also the more contact (in terms of volume) the water with air, the more that the water is influenced by the air temperature.....
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  • idrisidris August 2012
    Posts: 1,182
    correct bro shukri...so for small pond, if the spray lenght is short, its do not work that well..but for pond that have longer lenght than it is best situation to use it...
  • lautslauts August 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Daniel,

    Try the vertical approach like bro James. Horizontal don't work so well i think due to minimal air turbulence generated. My theory is cooling due to evaporation and contact with cold air esp a night. Smaller holes, less noise also if bars and holes are closed then minimise splash. Can also put on timer to coincide with viewing time. temp 26C is not a problem to reach. posting in the earlier spray bar thread would be better , this is abt pump ?

    ts

  • megatronmegatron August 2012
    Posts: 832
    Noted with thanks bros.

    Bro Lauts, vertical will be impossible because of the limited length I have as mentioned by bro Idris. I am sure there will be a way to achieve the low temp. (may not be 25C, but I am happy with 26C) just need to do more try and error. I will share if I can manage it. It will benefit many small pond hobbyists.
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • grinkz01grinkz01 August 2012
    Posts: 530
    how about installing a sprinkle nozzle just like a fire alarm in mall/hotel? but place it in opposite position (just like a water fountain) then on top of the spray bar we install a blower downside flow? the idea is counter-current heat exchange......

    for spray dryer user, what is the pump type and model? is tsurumi 40 pu 150 watts powerfull enough?
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar August 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Hi Bro Grinkz01,
    I had tried the sprinkle nozzle, and it doesn't work for me as it need a really wide and long pond. Around 20% water goes out. But it's very effective
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    You guys can try Mitsubishi Submersible Pumps as an alternative replacement for TSURUMI. Many of my landscape contractors have switched from TSURUMI/Taiwanese brands to MITSUBISHI and it has not failed anyone of them until today. Design wise its very similar to Tsurumi 40PU/50PU/50PN series.
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Hi there J73,
    Welcome to Koianswers Forum. When you have said 'have not failed until today' means for how long already? 1 yr, 2 yrs, 3 yrs, 5 yrs or how many years? Your response will be greatly appreciated.....
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  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    Hi bro shukri, Approx 3 years. I have supplied easily over 100 units with not even a single unit return. Thanks
  • yee11yee11 August 2012
    Posts: 18
    wat is the spec and how much the pump ?
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro J73,
    That is surely an impressive record.....
    Can you PM me on the various equivalent Mitsubishi models, the wattage and the RM please....
    What's your name and where are you located.......
    And these pumps are made in Japan?
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  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    Bro Shukri, Mitsubishi Pumps are manufactured in Thailand. Though its in Thailand, its a manufacturing facility fully owned by MEQ Mitsubishi Electric Quality(Japan). Thanks
  • grinkz01grinkz01 August 2012
    Posts: 530
    abg shukri..my brother's tsurumi also works for 3 years already without any failures, but mine is just 1 yr.....can i assume that tsurumi also reliable?
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Current Tsurumi pumps are not like previously.....the once made in Japan.
    I was a diehart Tsurumi user, then when one by one started to failed, a few
    breaks down before a year's time........and I had enough.....and I have switched
    to other brands since........

    Anyone in this Forum uses Mitsubishi brand?
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur August 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro S,

    Many hobbyist use Mitsubishi pump in Indonesia too. Reliable but higher wattage compare to tsurumi
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
  • lautslauts August 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    The wattage looks interesting, has anyone tested the actual operating wattage? The claimed 150W by Tsurumi was actually closer to 300W when operating. If the 250W as claimed hold then more efficient than Tsurumi. Pricing wise for these Mitsus ??

    ts
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    Ive had quite a number of contractors/clients that claims they tested the operating Wattage of tsurumi pumps and says it operates at 300+W. For you guys information, Every Electric driven Motor/Pump data, there is always P1 and P2. And P1 is Electrical Power, and P2 is Pump Power.

    P1 = The incoming electrical Power(Normally it will be higher rating than P2)
    P2 = The power used by the pump to operate.

    In any case, when u refer to any pump Data Sheet you will see that P1 rating is always much higher than P2. But the actual power usage is P2. So to say, Tsurumi Pump Model 40PU2.15S indeed operates at 150w only. And until today this model is the lowest power consuming pump in the market. Even MITSUBISHI is slightly higher in Power Consumption comparing equivalent spec Model which is SSP255S.

    Thank You
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    Mitsubishi Pumps is definitely cheaper than TSURUMI. Especially for models like 0.5HP and 1.0hp the price difference is really very significant. Pls PM me should anyone need a quote. Thanks
  • KChongKChong August 2012
    Posts: 348
    Hi Guys,

    Yes, the actual power consumption for Tsurumi 40PU2.15S is 271w but we need to be careful when comparing the specification of pump.

    If you look at the flow rate where Tsurumigive you max15,000L/hr and SSP255S will give you max11,400L/hr. It is quite comparable to the SSP405S which give you max 14,400L/hr but the wattage is 400w.
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    Bro KChong,

    I just checked the data of TSURUMI 40PU2.15S and based on the specs its stated 0.19m3/min(max) which is 11.4m3/hr. When i convert 11.4m3/hr to Litres Per MInute is exactly 190lpm which is the same capacity as SSP255S. Thanks

    [IMG]http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv81/jonas_foo73/misc/40PU215S.jpg[/IMG]

    Post edited by J73 at 2012-08-29 11:35:07 am
  • lautslauts August 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro,

    Either P1 or P2 , the main concern is power consumption which we ultimately pay to TNB. So we should be concern abt P2? The P2 of Mitsu?

    Bro KC,

    The old Tsurumi was 15T per hrs, now ( 4-5 yrs back) it is only abt 11T. i still have 2 units output 15T , more than 13 yrs old :) . Never need servicing . (Y)

    ts
  • KChongKChong August 2012
    Posts: 348
    My apologies for the confusion as I must have left behind....:-D

    I didn't even realize that the Tsurumi output specification had changed as I am using one unit that is 15mt/hr and is 6 years old but still functional. I retired it since the TNB rate is always going up.
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    Guys the reason why we all refer to P2 is because that is the power used to operate the pump. Which means the bill that we pay to TNB also based on P2. The above stated for MITSUBISHI Models are also based on P2 readings. Thanks
  • lautslauts August 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Wah, i just help to promote your pump :-D . Your SSP255S 250W is cheaper to run ( electricity cost to TNB) compared to Tsurumi at abt 300W ??

    Going back to earlier question, anyone tested the claimed 250W , just like claimed 150W when tested runs at 300W ? :/ Bro Weiyin looks like we need your gadget le.

    ts

  • yee11yee11 August 2012
    Posts: 18
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    Hi Bro Lauts, to be fair actually SSP255S power consumption is slightly higher compared to 40PU.

    P2 for Tsurumi 40PU2.15S is 150W
    P2 for SSP255S is 250W

    So to say, the champ is still 40PU.
  • RyantRyant August 2012
    Posts: 30
    hi j73

    my pump just KO, i'm using grunfos Kpbasic 200.

    what is equivalent for Mitsubishi?

    How much ?

    how long is the wiring?

    What is next bigger model and how much ?

    how do i collect from you? im From Kuala lumpur
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    Bro Ryant,

    You just got PM-ed. Thanks

    Oh and mitsubishi Pumps comes with approx 6m Cables. For bigger capacity pump you 1st have to let me know what is the pipe size your pond is using. Coz if the pipe size is not big enough, than no point using a bigger capacity pump. Thanks
    Post edited by J73 at 2012-08-29 03:33:35 pm
  • lautslauts August 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    J73,

    Something important to clarify. What you are saying is that the gadget we used to measure wattage consumption actually measures P1 not P2. And P2 is what we pay TNB for? So if using Tsurumi 40PU , we are paying for 150W not the measured 300W ??
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/9027/Watt Tester.JPG
    ts
  • KChongKChong August 2012
    Posts: 348
    Lauts,

    If you want to test it out, I can do it for you. :-D
  • KChongKChong August 2012
    Posts: 348
    Hi J73,

    I am very confuse now #-O. If we are pay for150W for the Tsurumi, then there is no issue, but I believed most of us is paying for the 300w.

    So, to make everything clear, much appreciated if you can table out what we will pay for a Tsurumi 40PU as compare to SSP255S.

    Thank you
    Post edited by KChong at 2012-08-29 04:54:49 pm
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    Guys, when u use a watt meter to test on the pump, you guys are merely testing the Input Watt(P1) of the pump. But the actual watt's used to operate the pump is the Output Watt(P2). There is no way one can accurately table out an actual cost of operating for any pumps due to TNB chargers are based on tiers. There is no fixed rates that we can use for an accurate calculation. Unless your whole house only have one pump and nothing else. Than i suppose i will be able to calculate accurately. The best i normally do for my clients is to use Pro-rated amount as for a comparison only. In this case i shall make a rough calculation as a reference for all.

    -TNB Chargers Per kW/Hr : RM1.00(this is a rough figure for example only)
    -Pump Running 24 hours 7 days a week.

    Pump A - SSP255S c/w 250w 240v, 50hz
    250w = 0.25kW = Consumption of 0.25kW per Hour

    0.25kW x 24 hrs = 6kW per day

    6kW x RM1.00 = RM6.00 Per day

    RM6.00 x 30 days = RM180.00 per month.

    ____________________________________________________________________________________

    Pump B - 40PU2.15S c/w 150w 240v, 50hz
    150w = 0.15kW = Consumption of 0.15kW per hour.

    0.15kW x 24hrs = 3.6kW Per Day

    3.6kW x RM1.00 = RM3.60 Per day

    RM3.60 x 30 days = RM108.00 per month.

    ____________________________________________________________________________________

    Remarks : the above calculation is based on a fix Rate of RM1.00 per kW/Hr and only acts as an example to bros who isnt aware of how TNB chargers is being calculated.

    Thanks
  • grinkz01grinkz01 August 2012
    Posts: 530
    well, bro j73...the electricity bills are always coming from p1 and the commercial tester shown in the above pict is also able to measure on p1 only. thus i think both pumps should be tested in same ways which is p1. almost all pumps manufaturers are mentioning on :
    max flowrate, max head and power (should be written completely as power absorbed after efficiency deduct). they never show real power to be supplied by the grid to run this pump.

    i also ever test tsurumi pump 40 pu running on aprx. 240 watt (while the motor rating is only 150watt????) what about mitsubishi?
    Post edited by grinkz01 at 2012-08-30 04:20:13 pm
  • grinkz01grinkz01 August 2012
    Posts: 530
    just look at mitsubishi website and found below data:
    - ssp 255s max 2.5 amp
    - ssp 405s max 4 amp
    - ssp 755s max 6 amp

    i think this ampere rating is the number to count ur electricity bill. for ssp255 assumed ur pump run at 80% then wattage should be somewhere around 440 watt (2 * 220 volt) ???

    i think ssp 255 is in higher class than 40pu2.15 in term of pump curve performance. ssp 255 should be in the class of tsurumi 40pu2.25 ------ pls cmiiw
    Post edited by grinkz01 at 2012-09-01 01:51:15 am
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    Hi bro grinkz01, i have stated my point of view as i deal with pumps everyday. But if you insists that your point is correct, i have nothing much left to say. The reason why all pump manufacturers states Max Flow/Head is because the exact capacity of the pump is based on performance curve. So for pump specialist like me, we normally spec a pump based on the proper performance data vs its requirements(i stated in previous post all (MAX) capacity is for everyone to use as reference). And major manufacturers like TSURUMI/GRUNDFOS/MITSUBISHI i dont think they need to underrate their pump specs on paper to sell. Unless you talking about china made/OEM pumps. Talking about quality/technology/branding/efficiency no one will be most concern other than the mat salleh's/Japanese. As these two countries take extreme pride in their products. That being said, i doubt they are willing to risk their reputation by providing false/inaccurate data of their products. Thanks
  • grinkz01grinkz01 August 2012
    Posts: 530
    bro j73 i am not saying underrate nor false data from them..i used to work with pump curve also and rarely see name plate :-) what i mentioned previously was electricity bills are coming from p1 no matter what. and all watt meter i ever knew was also measuring p1 which is comes from electromagnet field caused by alternating current. so i am not against ur opinion, just want this to be measured in apple to apple condition.... i think u also aware about tsurumi and mitsubishi performance curve. tsurumi 40 pu definitely not comparable with mitsubishi 255 -- thats what i can read from its curve.
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    The flow rate for both this pumps is the same. Just that SSP255S has slightly higher Head compared to 40PU, which in certain application does make a difference. But both models/brands are as equally robust when it comes to clean water applications like koi ponds.
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Good discussion guys........Keep it going. I have learned quite a bit about pumps now.... :)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • grinkz01grinkz01 August 2012
    Posts: 530
    abg shukri...yes this forum is definitely good, we've discussing many here.

    bro j73, yes s255 is having higher head on the same flowrate compared to 40 pu....and for mitsubishi potential user pls dont get confused with higher electricity bills as u have a more powerful pump than 40pu....and of course u have to pay more.

    i believe both pumps are having good quality of japan brand....
  • KChongKChong August 2012
    Posts: 348
    At least we are clear now on P1 which is measured for electric consumption..... #:-s
  • mangkellmangkell August 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bro Grinkz01 & J73,

    I believe a performance curve for each pump model is needed if we want to compare an apple to apple.

    Unfortunately, most of the curve files are in pdf format & the size is bigger than 1mb.

    KoiAnswers uploads are limited to 200kb per file only :-(

    Any Bros know how to reduce pdf file size? :/
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • grinkz01grinkz01 August 2012
    Posts: 530
    yupe..the curve is in pdf but maybe we can use print screen and edit by paint brush...poorly i use handphone to online so cant do such print screen here...
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur August 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro and sis,

    When choosing a pump, don't just see the flowrate and wattage, max head also play major role. Higher max head mean bigger wattage and mean bigger flowrate at higher water output. That's why most pump manufacture mostly attach perfomance curve in the box.

    Here some example of Resun Sealion series :
    MODEL:PG-10000
    POWER:250W
    QMAX.:10000 L / Hr 2642GPH
    HMAX.:9.0m 29.5ft

    MODEL:PG-15000
    POWER:200W
    QMAX.:15000 L / Hr 3965GPH
    HMAX.:5.0m 16.4ft

    You can see the different flowrate and wattage. PG10k is more expensive than PG15k. I cannot find the performance curve chart, but i am not mistaken, their equilibrium is at 3meter and 8k flowrate.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • grinkz01grinkz01 August 2012
    Posts: 530
    agree bro harry luhur...flowrate must be determined by its head also...depend on the impeller model, size & body pump, we can modify pump characteristic as well....some pump have character for high head & low flow (and vice versa) and u cant just simply make the outlet flow squeezed if u expect to gain more pressure (head)...

    like typical jet pump used for rdf backwash, they should use high head and low flow type (i.e. multistage pump) but if our pond doesnt have bakki/tower and less pipe bend, better we use high flow pump and low head one.
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    I will try scan both Tsurumi and Mitsubishi catalogues and try posting it here as a referrence for everyone tomorrow. Thanks
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Good initiative there Bro........ :)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • J73J73 August 2012
    Posts: 56
    That's the least I can do bro.. :)
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur August 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro Grinkz,

    For above pump comparison, they have same flow rate at 3m height. If your BS is higher than 3m, you get lower flowrate with low head pump. It is the same with energy saver pump, which have a 75w and 15k flowrate but with head at 3m only. Modification inlet and outlet is not recommended because can shortened pump life. To maximize pump potential, you can apply "a header". This can also use for hiblow too.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • grinkz01grinkz01 August 2012
    Posts: 530
    yeah...maybe i am a short cut man type bro harry....i used to simply do trial opening position of outlet to adjust flow and pressure before playing with impeller modif & motor sizing change if valve no longer helpful.....but i used to do this in industrial pump and never try commercial pump.....:-)

    for pump with header...what is this purpose bro?
  • grinkz01grinkz01 September 2012
    Posts: 530
    bro n sis,
    try to upload pump curve from both
    [IMG]http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc443/grinkz01/tsurumicurve.jpg[/IMG]

    l did revised my previous comparison. Mitsubishi SSP255 S should be in par with Tsurumi 40PU 2.25.

    Assumed for 3m height, SSP255 will deliver about 170 lt/min compared to Tsurumi 40PU 2.15 S which only able to deliver 120 lt/min......this is a big delta flow -- IMHO
    Post edited by grinkz01 at 2012-09-01 02:04:17 am
  • grinkz01grinkz01 September 2012
    Posts: 530
  • ShukriShukri September 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Now, Understand the pumps a lot better........... :)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • mangkellmangkell September 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bro KChong,

    These sample of Performance Graft is what I'm asking for the said Jebao 4EP-32.
    It'll simply give us what Volume per hour at any different height of head we intend to use.
    Easier for us as guidance from simple return to do some future mods, say add TT need extra 2M head, add BS need 1M extra only... Etc :-D

    Bros,

    From the Spec table, I like the way Mitsubishi display their Optimum Head Design for each model.
    (Y) ... Like... Same as used by USA HCP & Europe SAER Italy.

    They call it Rated Head. L-)
    The Rule of Thumb Guide to buy a koi pond pump is,

    Say for 9ton total water with 1 cycle per hour and water return through a waterfall that is 12meter above the pump bottom.

    The optimum model for them is the Mitsubishi SSP-755... ie The Intended Cycle Closest to Rated Head Volume...

    Without a 12m waterfall, he also can use that pump, with lots of energy waste.
    Say a simple return normally 3m, yield about 20tph & double the cycle per hour.

    Versus, Choose a large volume model, like Jebao 4EP-32, for a comparable wattage will equal to some 4 units. Hence 4 x 70% x 32tph will yield some 80tph. This will make the same pond cycle at 8 times per hour. Same TNB electricity bill.

    The other way around will save us 75% bills.

    :-D
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
    Post edited by mangkell at 2012-09-01 08:54:46 am
  • mangkellmangkell September 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    These general purpose pump are not design for Koi Pond.
    Most of koi pond only require 3m head.

    However, these large volume design are fairly new technology.
    Here in Kota Bharu, a comparable model from Europe Saer Italy are sold at RM6K each...
    Hence, when Bro Kelvin offer the Jebao at RM650 each... HeHe... :-D ... I ordered 2 units...
    Let me test the durability for the Community... 90% Discounted price Bro... Risk taker maa...

    This also means a Jumbo Koi Pond 100ton are within reach, more manageably... ;-)
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • mangkellmangkell September 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bro Grinkz01,

    Forgot to say Thank You for the Performance Graph or Graft.... =D>
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • mangkellmangkell September 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bros,

    I'd like to view the effect of Spray Bar using a general pump & their durability... #:-s

    Most Spray bar photo I saw don't consider the pump max head pressure allowed.

    They simply put 4 bar with 1mm drill hole 600+ hoping the pump will last for years if not 10year.

    Putting a setup like that is same as using an 15 meter head Simple return for a pump which has a Max design Head of 10 meter, where no water will come out even the pipe is fully open. In yr case, It's a 1 meter only above ground but a closed circuit. No exit for the excessive pressure .... L-)

    Yes, the spray water do come out, the pressure is doubtfully within the design limit.

    Simple solution is to extend the exit pipe higher to the Rated Head design for each pump. They can be utilise as Waterfall, gutter shower, or go down again as simple return. That way, your Spray bar got enough pressure for the cooling & your pump are used within the design limit. :-D

    After all, the above setup proved to be effective by my THOR-OX™ :-t
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
    Post edited by mangkell at 2012-09-01 09:44:00 am
  • pslongpslong September 2012
    Posts: 288
    Hi anyone used this brand before? Tamara?

    http://drightsource.com/company/d/damai_mega/takara.html
  • grinkz01grinkz01 September 2012
    Posts: 530
    bro mangkell, thanks the compliment....yes i do like rated head term also which is usually reflecting pump operational and on its most optimum condition.

    for reliability, from my experience with industrial pump, the most frequent failure is its seal ---- then hit the bearing and other problem is motor burnt....I believe whatever pumps u are using will not be too far from these 2 common problems also..

    Post edited by grinkz01 at 2012-09-01 05:31:36 pm
  • ShukriShukri September 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    My justifications for the pumps is quite easy. These pumps that we are using will eventually fail sometime in the future, and especially when we use it 24 X 7. Any pump that last at least two years is a GOOD pump to me, lasts 3 to 5 years is definitely a BETTER pump, and lasts more than 5 years is a SUPERB pump.
    For example if a pump cost RM600 and lasts for 2 years, so it only costs 600/730 equals RM0.82 per day........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-09-01 03:23:15 pm
  • J73J73 September 2012
    Posts: 56
    Yes, for single phase submersible pumps, its mechanical seals is one of the most important mechanism that determines the pumps robustness and life span. From my little knowledge most manufacturers nowadays equip their pumps with double mechanical seals to increase the reliability of the pump. However there are also many taiwanese brands still only using single Mech seals. I also came across a few brands that uses tri-seals. But for 40pu n SSP255s both r using double seals.
    Post edited by J73 at 2012-09-01 03:30:42 pm
  • MikeMike September 2012
    Posts: 346
    Is there a way for us to service or replace the seal before it gives way thus prolong the life of the pump.
  • J73J73 September 2012
    Posts: 56
    Of coz... before it gives way, u can always replace the mech seal.
  • grinkz01grinkz01 September 2012
    Posts: 530
    should be replaceable bro though I never did it by myself....pls looks at pump view.
  • mangkellmangkell September 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bro Mike,

    I once survey at KB HCP authorised dealer, to do a complete service including seal & lubricant inside. For my 18mths old pump, they quot RM100. Brand new RM550... HeHe.. :-D

    Better buy new one laaa... Now got 7 pump, order Kelvin 2, total 9.

    One pump for 1 Jumbo Koi... :-))
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • MikeMike September 2012
    Posts: 346
    Darn Aznan, sooner or later you'll have more pump than koi ... :-D
  • KChongKChong September 2012
    Posts: 348
    Hi Guys,

    One thing for sure is to clean/service the pumproutinely in order for it to last longer just our car .

    After time, biofilm will build up on the turbine/propellar, inlet and outlet and therefore this has to be cleaned once a while.

    Full service with replacement of the seal is recommended especially for those pump which work on that mechanism.

    The other thing is not to stress the pump. If the depth in the filter pump chamber is 1.8M, then you can always make a plateform for the pump to be place somewhere half the depth if the return pipe height is near the water surface as this will allow the pump to work efficiently.....
  • christan1959christan1959 February 2014
    Posts: 12
    I am quite fed up with Tsurumi pumps. The first two lasted 5-7 years. But since then, all the replacements do not last longer than 2 years. The worst: 6months. And when u send for repair/claim, the company will always say "corrosion by salt water". What rubbish! Salt content in my pond less than 0.03%. Anyway, I read that many bros are using Mitsubishi pumps. I hear also that ShinMaywa pumps are pretty good. Any bros in Singapore got experience with ShinMaywa?
  • Kelvin86Kelvin86 November 2014
    Posts: 301
    Sorry for digging up this old post. So would like some conclusion or clarification that what is the actual power consumption for Tsurumi 40PU0.15? I read the comments said around 300 watts and another mentioned 150 watts?

    I would like to install these into my two new ponds so would like to have some actual details on the power consumption.

    Thanks a lot guys and appreciate for the feedback. ☺
    - Aquatic Kingdom -
  • lautslauts November 2014
    Posts: 1,248
    Kelvin,

    The stated consumption for Tsu 40PU is 150W. But this is without load , running outside water. The minute it goes into water it rises to abt 300-350W. Sometime ago there was a test done by meter reading to confirm this.

    ts
  • ray2kray2k November 2014
    Posts: 96
    I'm getting about 260watts consumption on my Tsurumi 40PU2.15S. Measured using those plugin watt meters.
  • ray2kray2k November 2014
    Posts: 96
    koianswers.com/discussion/download/16529/rps20141120_155035.jpg
    koianswers.com/discussion/download/16530/rps20141120_155149.jpg
  • lautslauts November 2014
    Posts: 1,248
    Ray ,

    How deep you are pumping from? Mine was abt 6.5ft . There was a thread on this , definately not 150W.

    ts
  • ray2kray2k November 2014
    Posts: 96
    The pump is about 3-4 ft below water surface. But total pipe run is unsure because it is not a straight run.

    My measured wattage is 260+ watts, not 150W


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