Pond water return. Your opinion.
  • HDCuHDCu October 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Lately, I have been experimenting whether all bakki shower return or all horizontal pond return will be better or a combination of both.
    By adjusting different valves I can manipulate the flow back from filter to pond and choose what type of flow return I want.

    I did notice the following.
    1. All return going thru bakki shower creates more noise but higher turnover rate. The kois seem to love spending at under bakki shower. The kois seem to move in any direction. However I did notice some waste land away from the bottom drain.
    2. All returns going thru mid pond return is very queit but one can notice a very strong current circling the pond. All the kois more than often times like to stay on the sides swimming motionless and horizontally level against the incoming current. However, as the bakki is not wetted, one gets reduced filtration cabability. pond turnover is also lower.
    3. One pump feeds to the bakki while one pump feeds one horizontal pond return. Results is between the two. The kois stay only half the time swimming against the current as compared to the all horizontal returns. There is less noise than compared to all returns going to bakki. Also most of the waste seem to fall in the middle of the pond where it gets sucked by the bottom drain slowly. Interesting to note that one third of the pond there are much more tiny bubbles created. The bubble are so small that they seem to stay in the water longer. It seems the bubbles releases from the airhose diffuser goes diagonal and breaksup. The kois I noticed like to stay in that zone.

    I did not notice any change in appetite. In terms of temperature reading, the all bakki seems to give a slightly lower water temp but its not really a lot compared to the half bakki/half mid pond return. Body shape of koi needs further long term testing.

    Any comments?
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar October 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro,
    Very interesting subject. I always twist and turn my return pipe to get best result. IMHO, the 3rd option would be best:
    1) Vertical pump pond return give current for Koi's to exercise. But if it is in circular return, the waste can go to BD. Less waste would be floating in the pond. This is what I saw in Narita farm.
    2) Bakki Shower give more filtration media and lower temperature.
    By combining both, you get both advantages.
    :-D .

    If you prefer only vertical return to the pond (to avoid waste land away from BD), you can channel the water from bakki shower to last chamber of filter than channel to pond through vertical return.

    Just my 2 cents :-D
  • HDCuHDCu October 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    I have to make a correction that instead of vertical return, it should have read horizontal flow. I get confuse. In any case it should not be confuse to a tangent pond return(tpr).

    I think one of the secret of building good koi bodies in a small ponds is to provide a strong aerated current for the koi to get enough exercise couple with feeding the right protein, minerals and vitamins and very good water parameters helped with contant water change.

    Bro Bthineshkumar,

    If water is pumped are then redirected to a bakki shower and then release to the pond thru a pipe, it will generate only a weak surface current as one would just be relying on gravity.

    In my case, the return pipe from 5200GPH pump is located 18 inches below surface water which generates a fairly strong midlevel to surface current on the side of the pond. I noticed the kois now prefer staying just around two to three feet above the surface and near the opposite corner side to swim against the strong current. Occassionally, they go to the middle and then go back again in position.
    Post edited by HDCu at 2012-10-06 02:21:11 pm
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar October 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Oh ya. Should be Horizontal return :-))

    Sorry bro, what I meant is, channel water from bakki shower to filter chamber and channel to pond through horizontal return using pump.
  • mangkellmangkell October 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    How's the FATS doing bro? :/
    Now's October already.... What's the result? :-?
    Your FATS™ :0& can run from my THOR-OX™ :-t but she can't HIDE.... HeHe :-D
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • HDCuHDCu October 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Mangkell,

    I am purposedly delaying the implementation of the FATS although I have now 12 water resistant fans with me that I can just plug in the bakki setup.

    My reasons are that:
    1. I have four new high quality jumbo tosais joining the six presently at the pond. I would like my temperature in the quarantine tank to be as close as possible to the main pond water so that when I transfer them they can adapt immediately without complications. Once the new additions immune systems have developed in the new pond, I will then lower gradually the pond water temperature, taking advantage of the cooler nights in the coming days.

    2. A Temperature of 27 to 28 degrees is better to buildup the bacteria nitrifying colonies and some wall algae in a new pond as compared to 24 to 25 degrees. Lately, pond temperature is now hovering at 26.2 to 26.8 even without FATS. The slightly lower temperature is brought about now by cooler nights since its now October.
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur October 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro HDCu,

    BS return to pond using pipe can help the circular motion, thus creating vortex and debris will suck faster toward BD. Many mistake made is water return creating circular motion and BS return straight down to the pond actually interfere the circular motion, so BD is not so effective and you will get a "fraud" flow, plus airhose in wrong position will cause small particles to fly around the pond instead of going to BD. This may sometimes look clean but foggy, and you can notice it when night time and use metal halide on the pond.

    Strong current will drive small particles around the pond, and it seem your water clean because the small particles is camuflage by water movement. And my quality time to enjoy a koi is night time where i turn some pond and turn on metal halide light. This time ican enjoy koi swim gracely, with floating sensation, you can see it in Bro Smoker video for example. I have some beautiful video, but unfortunately it is very big to upload to youtube.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • mangkellmangkell October 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Bro @Harry_luhur,

    You can upload to YouTube with unlimited file size after certain time... After certain nos of file in good conduct... The first barrier is 15minutes video length.... L-)
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur October 2012
    Posts: 808
    Trying from BB, keep failing to upload a 55mb file
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • HDCuHDCu October 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Harry,

    For now,the water quality is very clear without any floating particulate. In fact, I can even see the koi release their waste and the waste fall slowly down near the bottom drain at night using just two flourescent PAR38. Even at 4 feet below, I can see the shiroji still white. I can even see the tiny bubbles that I mentioned.

    The real test will be when I add more kois in the pond in the coming days. Such a joy to have a correct stocked pond that the filters and pump can handle easily.
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur October 2012
    Posts: 808
    Koi population and feeding affect water clarity. And i may suggest adding metal halide, very nice view and you can get a nice effect in you wall too from water movement reflection.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • pandaipandai October 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro Harry, where is the best to place the metal halide light? Any pictures? Thanks.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • NeliNeli October 2012
    Posts: 1,205
    Bro @harry_luhur,
    Do u put that light in the water or above.
    My returns are 10cm bellow water level and 40cm above pond floor...each return has a valve...so I can decide which ones to use finally.
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur October 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro Pandai,
    If can put above the pond is better, if cannot, any side view can be put. Just find the right position where the beam don't deflect to where you usually sit. MH is very bright and it is the only light that can truly penetrate water. You may easily find a 150w DAYLIGHT philips with housing. Please use daylight/white bulb not the yellow one.

    Sis Neli,
    The lower your water return, it mean less water turnover. Pump need more power to discharge below water due to surrounding pond water pressure. Smaller pipe return also create longer but strong current, and it hurt if got hit by it. I rarely use mid water return now,
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur October 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro HDCu,

    Finally able to upload 55mb via Blackberry to youtube. Here is when all pump stop, and you and see the effect of MH. Seeing in person is much better than video, so @Shukri, can start 1st international pond visit :d

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ucI-lZLtLXI
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • boykoiboykoi October 2012
    Posts: 186
    As to water returns, all mine comes from the bakki dropping down to the chemical bio filter. the filter has mid return slit and side by side has 2 matala diffusers for pond aeraton. thus, water surface current comes from the air diffusers, and the returns from that mid return slit.the midreturn slit is 2 ft above the floor thus, i dont expect a horizontal push, but rather an inclined vertical push, together with the diffuser,circulates pond water from down midreturn to surface through diffusers, then down again through the bottom drain at the farther opposite end of the pond sucking unto the vortex and filters. so instead of a circular motion using TPR's looking above or on plan, mine is circular motion when looking at section of the pond. for me, this has 2 advantages. One is, theres less or no dead water at any sides of the pond, water is evenly dilluted and circulated, second is that kois love the strong surface current from the diffusers, and the inclined vertical upward push from the mid returns up to the middle part of the pond. This solves 2 things, First is, tosais love the push up and strong surface current, nissais and sansais love the calmer end of the pond along the skimmer and 2 bottom drains,so i think in my pond observation, it suits them pretty well.
  • HDCuHDCu October 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Hi Bro Boykoi,

    Thanks for sharing.
    Is your two matala diffusers fixed on top the bottom drain or can it be pulled out of the water? Any reason why you chose the matala rubber circular diffuser instead of ceramic airstone diffuser or japanese airhose which produces finer bubbles and better air to water oxygen transferance?

  • boykoiboykoi October 2012
    Posts: 186
    My matala is near the mid level returns from the bakki shower, the BD and skimmer at the far end. I use matala diffuser as it doesnt clog,any airstone in time do clog up and you have to clean and change ceramic stones over the years. i wouldve wanted a japanese hose but isnt available here at my place.so the diffuser pushes the water up, and the BD sucks the water down at the far end,so water has a circular movement in section.the downside i only find is, theres too many bubbles on the surface.i need to have a valve for the diffusers to control it.

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