How I injected my koi with antibiotic
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2010
    Posts: 1,053
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2010
    Posts: 1,053
    Hi bros/sis,

    Just want to share this video which I have uploaded in youtube. Not that great actually but I hope you guys can add on comments for everyone to learn.
  • DRADRA November 2010
    Posts: 89
    As'kum
    Skillfully done and wishing a speedy recovery.

    Razif Abdullah
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2010
    Posts: 1,053
    Salam Dato,

    Thank you. Sikit2 boleh la.
  • nocturnalnocturnal November 2010
    Posts: 376
    thanks for sharing Capt, i find it really informative (ok)
    is there a difference between injecting near the vent & below pectoral fin?
    what is this method called? (remember Abang Shukri mention IV, IM... sorry if i missed it in the narration)


    ps. didn't know ur a Chelsea fan (mooning) :P

  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Borman, a very good illustration of the IP (Intra Peritoneal) technique. You made it looked simple that anyone watching would be able to do it. Thanks for sharing.

    I would add a little bit more here to a very fine demonstration i.e. that the antibiotics is released into the Peritoneal cavity which houses many of the koi organs. The antobiotics will be slowly absorped into the tissues, organs etc. The beauty with this technique is that the Antibiotics are able to stay in the koi a lot longer than the other two techniques (IM and IV).

    Next, possibly someone or Bro Borman can demonstrate the IM (Intra Muscular) technique ie injecting at the base of the Pectorial fin. IM can be done at several places but at the base of the Pectorial fin seemed to be popular in Europe and Japan. Americans favor the IP technique.

    To the Liver in the pool fan staying in Kluang....... (finger) (smoking) :-E
    Post edited by Shukri at 2010-11-15 12:28:57 pm
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • AnuarAnuar November 2010
    Posts: 688
    Capt, a bit misleading lah, looks simple but not very simple... I hope to one day learn from you, need practical training...
    The toughest part is to insert the needle, you just need the confidence to jab in firmly. I'll stick with oral treatment for now...
  • AndySittAndySitt November 2010
    Posts: 560
    Very well done.. quick hands... I find the most difficult part is the amount of Transmore to put in. Overdose, nice and easy to inject but the fish sometimes don't wake up ... To put the fish to sleep I always put transmore straight to the fish head area, but Master Jeff (Arowana) says.. dont do that or the fish might die .. ops..

    Capt your process in using iodine after each shot is also good.. Most people don't even do that...

  • megatronmegatron November 2010
    Posts: 832
    Skillfully done. I don't think I can do it now. Maybe after a few attends
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2010
    Posts: 1,053
    Hi guys,

    Adik> I guessed bro Shukri has explained it well. I haave tried all type of injections and choose it according to the injury or treatment required(or even for B12 injection). For small fish I would prefer this method(IP) as it is safer and you can hardly injured the tossai. By injecting on & side of the stomach area, chances of acc injecting any internal organs is slim. But make sure not too close to the vent or injecting less than 6 hours after meal otherwise the antibiotic might go to waste together with the fish poo.

    p/s: 1st team still Spurs. I supported these 2 teams since Glenn Hodle & G Crooks days but only this couple of years, Chelsea became popular among the fans. So you r liver in the pool fan la... :)

    Shuk> IM(pactoral fin base) is safe and easy for the big koi. Further more, you dont have to struggle to penetrate in between the scales or on the scale itself. It can be solid hard esp on the big koi. Thicker needle may be needed. With IM, I dont dare to insert the needle too deep as there are many internal organs near this area. That is why you will notice the needle used is shorter for IM.

    I will use IV procedure(near the tail fin) if there is injury or ulser near that area as you need to insert the needle into the muscle/flash. A bit painful for the koi(I guess :) ) and the koi tends to flip the tail when it got shocked. Actually bro, you were the one who tot me IV procedure thru the phone...hahaha.. so I simply gatal and injected B12 just to try this it. But for B12 injection, I think IP would be better and direct to related organs.

    Anuar> With one or twice practice, you will be ok wan... :) For internal bacteria(like ulser), the koi will recover faster with antibiotic injection. Otherwise the koi will spend too long in the Q tank. You can also build better imune system against the same bacteria. You can practice injecting Talapia with water first. If it dies then just place it in the kuali. :) You can take as many practice as you want with this fish.

    On injecting IP or IV, try to inject exactly at the "centre & below" of the top scale as this will result injecting in between the two scales below it(due to scalation arrangement). The koi may not lose a single scale if you do it properly. Not sure if you can see it clearly in my video.

    Andy> Oh yes bro, you can overdosed the koi with transmore if you are not careful. Its not about the size but about the strength (hmmm... where did I hear this??)
    Same size kois may get affected differently with transmore. With plenty of aeration, you can practice to gauge the amount needed as the koi will not get stress up due to lack of O2. You can add little by little as you are not worry about the aeration.

    Normally I will use water just above the mouth level. By doing this, less transmore needed and you can treat top body part for any injury. You can also play with the "koi consciousness" by lifting or submerging the koi head/gill. This is very important for long surgery such as cosmetic surgery. :) Then the koi wont stay in "unconscious mode" for too long & deep till it leave for Japan...hehehe..

    And bro, avoid dropping transmore on the koi head coz again, size doesnt matter :-0 :)
    If I place airstone in the basin, I will drop it there or away from the koi's head.

    Megatron> Bro, try on talapia... hehehe... you can have as many practice as you want.. :)

    Regards

    IKK
  • lautslauts November 2010
    Posts: 1,247
    Bro IKK,

    Good to hear there is another Spurs fan. Crooks never heard of him, Ossie Ardiles, Clemence ada la. (grin). IMHO it is dangerous to mix any medication with MS222(Transmore) , i see there are S1 accidentallly added too. :-(
    To share i killed my 78cm shiro when PP accidentally added to Transmore. What i did was after PP bath 20min, i transferred the shiro into a bag with MS222. Some PP got transferred too. Once knocked out then inject with Ciprobay. The koi never woke up even after 1hour of resusitation. No overdose as i measure exact per instruction. IMHO best not to mix . Good video , make everything look simple , like pro. (grin)

    :-) :-)

    Thank you.
    ts

  • AnuarAnuar November 2010
    Posts: 688
    Capt, forgot to mention that you are more than ready to host koi talk show on tv!!! haha, this one got commercial value.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2010
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Lau> sorry bro, it's Garth Cooks(black player no 11, who always missed his chance). Same batch with those players you've mentioned. Now I know which whom I shud gossip bat spurs :)

    But I think bro, the PP bath is very stressful for the koi. I won't do any injection or any other treatment after PP bath. PP and salt is a killer. PP with other medication also dangerous. PP is stand alone medication. Sorry to know about that koi of yours. 78cm is a huge koi for me.

    I have accidentally(few times accident) mixed water with S1 before while using Transmore but was ok. S1 is q friendly BUT you are right bro, better try not to mix any medication with others unless you are sure. Thanks bro.

    Bro Anuar> Next time we meet, dinner is on me bro. :-) But did you manage to get what i was saying in the video?? Coz I can't la bro... Wakakaka....
    Thanks

    Ikk
  • lautslauts November 2010
    Posts: 1,247
    Bro IKK,

    Was pulling your leg , there is a G. Crooks (bandit) . :-) :-)

    On the PP bath and injection , hope some learn from my mistake. After PP bath don't do injection la. Bro salt and PP ok at low concentration. Read the article posted by Paul sometime ago?. I have recently 1.5 weeks ago PP at 0.15% salt, and PP was 3ppm and 1ppm after 2 hours. Lasted for 5hrs on a clean filter and not by pass biochamber. No nitrite and ammo detected since, on minimal feeding. More effective for sure. I think Bro shukri also concur on this. Also salt and formalin also ok. Make sure lots of o2. Tried salt 0.2% and double dose Misaki Antiparasite.

    :-) :-)

    ts



  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Dear all, I hope that now more people are confident to inject their own kois when come to administering the injections. The more people that know how to to it, the better it is for the Koi Keeping Hobby.

    Just another thing to add, if you do decide to inject, make sure the 3 courses of the dosage is adhered to. Depending on the severity of the disease i.e. an open visible sore, I would recommend 3 consecutive days. For a moderate infection, every altenate days, and a mild infection, once every 3 days for 3 injections. Under dosing and not adhering to the three days can cause the bacteria to be immuned to the drug, and we do not want bacteria that are immuned to any particular drugs.

    Having Injecting........ :) :) :)
    Post edited by Shukri at 2010-11-18 12:23:46 am
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • nocturnalnocturnal November 2010
    Posts: 376
    "To the Liver in the pool fan staying in Kluang....... (finger) (smoking) :-E "


    i'm sure many of my orang kampung here in Kluang supports Liverpool but i'm never one of them. forgot oredi ka
    Bang Shukri? (drunk)
    at the old forum kita siap berbalas pantun... (mooning) :P

    Capt thanx for the further explaination & suggestion, gonna find me talapias soon.... (smoking) 8-), now u know i'm not Liverpool fan, i support the other team with more silverware (rock)
    also sorry for the crazy late reply, was caught up with some personal things past few days....
  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Ya la.........you are the MU diehard supporter.........don't I know it! :-D :-E
    Post edited by Shukri at 2010-11-21 02:31:18 pm
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2010
    Posts: 1,053
    Adik> don't forget to send your shiros to the coming show.. Beautiful lor..
  • SengChoonSengChoon November 2010
    Posts: 443
    Capt,

    I noticed you use the iodine paste after injecting your kois. May I know what brand is that? and where can we get them?

    The iodine paste seems to be quite good for minor infections and wounds.

  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2010
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro,
    I got the iodine from Melbourne. Maybe you can find in the farmacy in KL but I myself couldnt find it. I was looking for oitment/paste type so it sticks to the koi's body.

    Another good anticeptic is propolis(spray type) from New Zealand but I dare not use it yet as I am not sure how it will react on koi's body. I have tried on my cat and it sticks well and good too. This one can easily be found in KL. Not sure if anybody has tried it.
  • SengChoonSengChoon November 2010
    Posts: 443
    Thanks for the tip bro. WIll try it out.

    I thought the iodine paste is very good as it sticks. But have not heard about propolis. Normally propolis are for consumption as it is supposed to be better than honey. But for wounds, that's untested.

    The downside of this is that propolis is quite expensive. Small bottle for consumption is already RM200++. If you know of any cheaper stuff, do let me know.

    Thanks again Capt.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Apply for Membership