Backup Power supply In a Koi pond
  • ChengAunChengAun February 2011
    Posts: 924
    hello all uncles,
    do you think a backup battery suplly for our beloved nishikigoi is importat during blackouts?? thanks :)
  • JoshuaChinJoshuaChin February 2011
    Posts: 371
    u think ler? :p
  • PH8PH8 February 2011
    Posts: 683
    CA, the simple answer to that is YES. I can give you a more technical answer but that would result in another of my long-winded posts. Fyi, I have a UPS at home which can power my Resun100 for 4 hours, but the battery has been dead for the last 4 months and I have not replaced it because I realise I don't really need it. But all hobbyists who care about their fish should have a back up system. My situation is different from most hobbyists.
  • ChengAunChengAun February 2011
    Posts: 924
    Uncle Paul,
    i know that u have a UPS at home. didn't know you are using Resun? i thought u are using HIBLOW 80?? i believe uncle David doesn't use a UPS in his 47 ton pond. then again, i guess it all has to do with the stocking levels
    Post edited by ChengAun at 2011-02-20 11:36:34 pm
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • PH8PH8 February 2011
    Posts: 683
    Brother David uses the DOB cavitation system which enables the water to retain oxygen for a very long time, more than enough to handle the typical power failure in Singapore.

    Yes, you are right, stocking levels are critical. At the end of the day, what we are afraid about from a power failure is oxygen depletion in the water. This would be fatal to our fish, beginning with the bigger fish which have higher oxygen needs.

    The oxygen depletion rate itself will vary, depending on many factors including stocking rate and pond system. Why do mud ponds not need electrically induced oxygen? Well, I know these days some breeders do use electric water wheels to increase oxygen levels in mud ponds, but fish in mud ponds without them do fine too. Why? Because of the low stocking rate in the mud pond. The huge air-water interface for a mud pond ensures that oxygen is being absorbed into the water faster than the fish can consume it.

    Of course none of us have koi ponds with such a super low stocking rate like a mud pond. Typically as hobbyists, we are overstocked, particularly when the pond is smallish. In such situations, the oxygen depletion rate can be quite fast without air blowers during a power failure, and they could all be dead within 3-4 hours. For those with lots of algae in their ponds, night time would be particularly dangerous as the algae would be consuming rather than producing oxygen.

    Let me relate 2 incidents to you. The first was Bro Thiam Hwa's experience a while back. As you may know, his pond is not very big, but he has (I think) as many fish as he has tons of water. So not exactly lightly stocked. When the power station burned down a few months back, he went a full 12 hours without air blowers in his pond. His UPS failed to work when it mattered. Yet his fish were all fine. The power supply came back on after 12 hours, so maybe the fish could have taken an even longer time. 2 important things to note though - Firstly, his system includes a bakki shower and TDO is saturated at 7.5ppm at his water temperature level. A higher starting level means more buffer against oxygen depletion. Secondly, he used a hose to add water to the pond during this time. Spraying the hose upwards oxygenates the incoming water and helps slow down the pond oxygen depletion rate. Small thing, but I think it goes a long way to help.

    The 2nd incident was my own. When my maid was "on leave" late last year and I had to be outstation, I came back to find that my entire house electricity had tripped and the pond wasn't running at all. When we checked the power meter later, we found that there was one day's electricity consumption missing, so it was most likely an entire 24 hours without electricity. At most, my UPS (if it had worked) would have lasted 4 hours only. It certainly wasn't working when I got home. Yet.....all the fish were fine. To be honest, I was quite amazed there were no casualties as I used to freak out previously after 3-4 hours without electricity.

    In my case, my pond stocking rate is quite low. Moreover, my water is chilled at about 25C and my TDO level is about 8.0ppm. So again I had higher base to start from. Chilled water also retains oxygen longer than warmer water. No doubt the chillers aren't working during the power disruption, but the temperature doesn't go up much more than 1.5C in 24 hours. So if my fish can survive 24 hours in my pond without electricity, then I think in my case a UPS system would be less critical. But a UPS system would certainly be critical for hobbyists who are overstocked, without chilled water or saturated TDO levels. In many hobbyist ponds, the TDO levels are only around 4-6ppm, especially those without bakki showers or waterfalls. In such ponds, oxygen depletion rate could be very fast. Quarantine tanks will be the same thing.

    One last word about power failures, which is a piece of advice offered to me by Dato Razif. After a power failure which is relatively prolonged, empty the filter chambers first before restarting the pumps. The rationale is that the stagnant water leads to bad bacteria multiplying itself quite fast, especially in the filter chambers where the faeces are collected. Unleashing them into the pond may have negative consequences.

    There you go, my usual long winded post. (:|
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-02-23 04:09:00 pm
  • ChengAunChengAun February 2011
    Posts: 924
    very very interesting indeed. luckily i heavily aerate the pond with a bakki shower and a air blower to provide 45 liters of air per minute. haven't checked the TDO lever before though. but a blackout happened quite recently in my house. the power was out for about 2 hours and the fishes were perfectly fine. and btw your long winded post's are no where near the word BORING
    :)
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • ikankoikauikankoikau February 2011
    Posts: 1,053
    CA, just to add on, I also have petrol powered generator which is normally use by night market people. This is good to have and it is cheap too. It can last almost forever as long as the petrol is topped up. Cost around rm300 plus and mine can power up to 500W. But you need someone to start it up and connect the blower to the 3 pin socket.
  • ShukriShukri February 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro, RM300 plus urr! Brand new? That's very cheap.......where can I get one!
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ChengAunChengAun February 2011
    Posts: 924
    y alor uncle shukri. so cheap 1. a simple AC/DC aquarium airpump already 200 ringgit leh
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • yysim88yysim88 February 2011
    Posts: 340
    I got a gen set too. But I ran out of petrol in the last blackout.
  • HermanHerman February 2011
    Posts: 46
    uncle shukri, hv u ever heard about inverex? i'm using this inverex to back up for 700w pump which equals to 1 hp pump. i'm just wondering am i doing the right thing?
  • ShukriShukri February 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    You are taking about an equivalent to UPS right? How long does it last?
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau February 2011
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro, you can ask any mechanical machine dealer. If I can still recall, I got mine for 310rm only. Very sure about the price. I only used it once when the blackout last for more than 8 hr. I bought it when my ups was about to give up after 5 hrs.
  • ShukriShukri February 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    I thought the cheapest is RM1,500 or so........guess you must be right since you bought one......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • lautslauts February 2011
    Posts: 1,247
    Bro Shukri,

    Bro IKK is correct abt price of generator , abt Rm300+ enough to power 2 Resun 150watt for as long as you top up petrol mix. Cost slightly more for a good Yamaha set , used by pasarmalam runners, so price very competitive. Down side is need to learn up how to store after use, else difficult to restart next time. And can be noisy and exhaust fume like in pasar malam lah but for your corner place no problem la. Much cheaper alternative ( not prefect alternative) to UPS, which just like car battery will need replace after 2 yrs but this is lorry battery so quite costly. With generator , if you are outstation , you may need some planning and ask neighbour to startup if power out/trip.

    ts
  • ikankoikauikankoikau February 2011
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro,
    If you ask me, I would say it is a must hv back up. The reason I bought it at the first place was due to the UPS about to give up after prolong power failure. Recently my ups unable to take over which i think must be due to the battery. It has been more than 2 years now. If you always hv somebody at home or neighbor or friend, then the generator will be very helpful. Even my 11 years old son can start it up. For maintanence, you got to start it at least once a month for a few minutes. Main thing, it can power more than enough( mine up to 500W) even the pump and the fan. For house lighting, once a while it is romantic to use candles ,:-D
    Post edited by ikankoikau at 2011-02-23 06:59:18 pm
  • ShukriShukri February 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Borman & Lauts, TQ for your feedback and comments.
    When I am outstation, I use the Oxydator when I am away.....
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • niveknivek June 2014
    Posts: 1,250
    Bump for a good thread on backup power.
  • ray2kray2k June 2014
    Posts: 96
    Yes, good thread. I would add that if the space and means permit, install a larger genset of 10-20kVA and your fish will have all their pumps and air and UVs going business as usual PLUS you can have your fridge, some aircond and a few other ESSENTIALS running. :-D

    This will start automatically too.

    Master and fish in comfort while your neighbours sweat it out in a blackout.

  • ShukriShukri June 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    If your pond is big enough, use the trickle water method from the tap.......... that way fresh water will be continuously flowing 24 X 7, but please ensure that there will not be chlorine poisoning.........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • niveknivek June 2014
    Posts: 1,250
    Bought this for RM320. Enough to power the water and air pumps for 8 hrs on a full tank (4.5 litres).

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/15797/IMG_20140611_105440.jpg

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