New Year, New Koi
  • wklimwklim February 2014
    Posts: 97
    Happy Chinese New Year!

    Bros, I'm looking to add 2 more pcs to my collection for the new year :)
    Please give your opinion which kohaku and Hi Utsuri tosai will you choose from the lot below? They are around 17-19cm.

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/15047/IMG_3012.jpg
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/15046/IMG_3011.jpg
  • brianlawbrianlaw February 2014
    Posts: 107
    Kokahu - the right one :)
  • wklimwklim February 2014
    Posts: 97
    Thanks, bro Brian :D One of my favourite too!
    Bros, any comments on the hi utsuri?
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar February 2014
    Posts: 1,763
    Same here,

    Kohaku: the one on right

    Hi-Utsuri:Non of them attracts much, but among the four, the one on the left looks better. If you're not in hurry, skip this batch.

    Cheers
  • wklimwklim February 2014
    Posts: 97
    Bro Bthineshkumar, thanks for the confidence vote for kohaku :)
    As for hi-utsuri, just as I thought.... tail area seems too black to me and really groping in the dark cos first time choosing this variety!
    Cheers
  • koiBoykoiBoy February 2014
    Posts: 151
    Hi bro, yes my pick would be same as bro TK, as for the Utsuri, my preference would be not so much of a dark head (less sumo on head) will make the individual look cleaner and more attractive, also the pattern of the fishes.

    my 2 cents!
    Cheers!
  • MfwleeMfwlee February 2014
    Posts: 355
    From a self confessed " pond " person - should we be concerned about a possible receding of the red as the koi on the right grows ? Maybe we should also look at the sides ? :/
    Mike Lee
  • wklimwklim February 2014
    Posts: 97
    Thanks, bro koiBoy :) agreed on the utsuri head pattern as well, which will be the upward facing pc... or continue my search.

    Bro Mfwlee, good pt and frankly, I don't know for sure.
    But with my older koi, I observed the beni stretches with growth and proportionate (pattern virtually unchanged from tosai stage). But then again, different breeder, different batch... so maybe time will tell.
    Btw, all kohaku above have beni stretching max to side lateral line, or exceed just a bit. My selection criteria :)
  • wklimwklim February 2014
    Posts: 97
    Bros, just an update that I bagged all 3 kohaku and 1 hi utsuri (facing up piece)... the price to pay for being indecisive :-))

    Thanks for all your input and comments! :)

  • MfwleeMfwlee February 2014
    Posts: 355
    Congratulations ! Just a further small point for your consideration.
    You seem to have koi with significantly different sizes - looks like you will need mixed pellet sizes when you feed ?
    Years ago when I had the same different sized assortment - I used the smaller sized pellets until the fellas had a chance to grow. My smaller fellas grew faster, and almost caught up after about 11/2 years !
    :)
    Mike Lee
  • wklimwklim February 2014
    Posts: 97
    Thanks a lot, Bro Mike! :) yes, I have changed my feed to medium and large pellet mix.
    You can see the tosai trying to grab large pallet, but cannot fit in the mouth. I think probably at least 25cm to take large size.
    Yes, 11/2 yrs is now my challenge, although I really hope the bigger ones will not let them catch up so soon! ;)
  • niveknivek February 2014
    Posts: 1,251
    Congrats bro Lim (Y)
  • wklimwklim February 2014
    Posts: 97
    Thanks Bro Kevin! :)
  • wklimwklim April 2014
    Posts: 97
    It's pond servicing time again and couldn't wait to take a closer look at the tosai development :-D
    I had been feeding heavily and the tosai measure around 34cm now. A bit concern whether the body of one of the kohaku can hold up though...

    Sharing the better photos and video with bros here :)

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/15474/IMG_29101.jpg

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/15473/IMG_29201.jpg

  • sleepymansleepyman April 2014
    Posts: 102
    Hey bro,

    Nice bulky bodies you have on the tosais!

    Good to see the updates!

    btw, which farm brings in Igarashi tosais?
  • wklimwklim April 2014
    Posts: 97
    Thank you, Bro sleepyman :)
    I have sent you a PM as well.
  • sleepymansleepyman April 2014
    Posts: 102
    Hey bro,

    since you are in singapore, must ask you go for show ya.

    Dropped you a PM too ;-)
  • wklimwklim April 2014
    Posts: 97
    Yes bro, I will be there with my kids :)
    As for participating, I hope one of these days with a good enough koi...
    Good to know one more SG kaki ;-)
  • grinkz01grinkz01 April 2014
    Posts: 530
    Wow...very nice bulky body. But i am a bit worry with over stretched beni...
  • ShukriShukri April 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Yup, be careful on the stretched Beni........... once gone, kind of hard to come back. Happened a few times to my favorite kois...........especially kohakus.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • wklimwklim April 2014
    Posts: 97
    Thanks a lot for the advice, Bro grinkz01, Bro Shukri :)
    The dealer did warn me he is not familiar with this batch and got to wait and see the beni... will try feed less, colour food only and always, better water quality.
  • ShukriShukri April 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Let us know the outcome.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • wklimwklim April 2014
    Posts: 97
    Thanks, Bro Shukri. I hope to bring good news...
  • StanStan April 2014
    Posts: 14
    Wander what is over stretched beni looks like....any picture ref for learning here...
    Stan
  • wklimwklim April 2014
    Posts: 97
    Bro Stan, sorry no pic examples, but my take is it's more a question on beni type and quality,

    Good beni on a tosai stretches uniformly with growth, but suspect beni will break into uneven patches, even disappearing quickly over time.

    If you look at my first pic, the leftmost kohaku has a spot of whiteness amongst the Hi, at the center-right of the shoulder. While this spot is the most stretched in all directions, the uneven-ness there becomes a concern.

    It could signal the start of fading Hi, but I'm cautiously optimistic as there is underlying pink at that spot, indicating Hi stability... I think :)


  • StanStan April 2014
    Posts: 14
    Bro Lim, got ur message. Hope it has good beni recover overtime...
    Stan
  • wklimwklim September 2014
    Posts: 97
    Hi Bros, I just want to share another video update on the tosai progress after 7 months.
    So far so good, I think the size should be around 50cm now :)

    Something interesting is that the smallest Igarashi kohaku back then is now the biggest. Back then, I also added 2 other smaller tosai (kuchibeni kohaku & kin showa/kujaku), which have now overtaken the whole batch of Igarashi kohaku :O



    Hope bros will enjoy the video :)
    Post edited by wklim at 2014-09-12 10:54:24 pm
  • brianlawbrianlaw September 2014
    Posts: 107
    Genetic genetic!
  • wklimwklim September 2014
    Posts: 97
    Bro Brian, yes I'm also inclined to conclude genetics make-up, but genes will be more evident from this point on and see which ones continue the consistent growth rate from 60+cm onwards. I'm aiming for jumbo genes :p

    What I also observed is that the bigger ones at this stage have a bigger and longer lasting appetite than all the rest. They are just hungrier. Just hope they turn out female.
    From videos, I see breeders paying special attention during feeding of their tosai... maybe is to observe which are the hungrier ones and even how they swim (I havent figure this yet). Of course, all the attributes of a quality fish must be there in the first place.
  • brianlawbrianlaw September 2014
    Posts: 107
    Bro WK,

    If you read my little story about my visit to Japan recently, according to the breeders, not all jumbo parent will produce offspring which are capable of achieving jumbo size. We must not be misguided, although Jumbo parent is a fundamental requirement for their offspring to grow to the same size like their parent or pass their parent. One tip I learned from the breeders is that - generally by judging from the body conformation and growth rate of a Nisai, experienced eyes will be able to guess quite accurately if the Nisai will have the potential to reach jumbo in 4sai or 5sai or even 6sai. Tosai is very hard to tell.

    To growth a jumbo - besides the usual good practices, I guess it is very important to ask your dealer/breeder the bloodline and history of the koi you intend to purchase. For example, if you look at momotaro auction list just released a few days ago, you will realize all good potential Nisai reaching 60 cm (these Nisais were spawned last year May - July and effectively - they are only 14-16 months old) would have been selected and kept by breeders at their tosai time and therefore, the question is: where those deselected tosai go? Your pond or my pond?

    The hint is - breeders would have kept the potential tosai for auction when they are Nisai in order to maximize their ROI and you need to be damn lucky to buy a potential tosai/nisai in Malaysia to reach jumbo. It is still possible, but very rare!


  • wklimwklim September 2014
    Posts: 97
    Bro Brian, thanks for the sharing and I must say I agree with your very valid points :)

    While in Japan, did you manage to visit some of the less well known farms? How is the quality and size of the fishes there? I suspect that the smaller farms may not have the scale or will to do auctions, hence there's a better chance to get the rare ones directly from the farm?
  • brianlawbrianlaw September 2014
    Posts: 107
    The big farms produced substantial quantity each year and therefore, they have more show quality kois to distribute. But the downside of these big brands is that they are highly in demand and you need to have a very very deep pocket to bid for the best fish. As for the smaller farms, their production is smaller and therefore, less show kois to distribute, but the price is cheaper. If you asked me personally - there is no guarantee you will get a potential jumbo from the big brands (unless you decide to pay a bomb) and thus, my preference is to buy the very good quality ones from the smaller farms (at least pocket not so pain).

    I usually buy from the less famous farms directly and I am happy with their products. In Malaysia - unless you have a tip top facility, the quality of the fish will inevitable drop - so - no point paying top dollar for the very top fish. I am happy with those which are above average quality. In case anything happened to the fish - pocket still can tahan :)
    Post edited by brianlaw at 2014-09-14 08:18:31 pm
  • wklimwklim September 2014
    Posts: 97
    Cheers bro, good to know I'm not alone in this thinking without having to find out the $$$ way. Your pocket still deeper because I only source from local dealer currently ;-)
  • wklimwklim November 2014
    Posts: 97
    Post edited by wklim at 2014-12-22 06:17:26 pm
  • wklimwklim November 2014
    Posts: 97
    Hi Bros,

    Happy to share 4 new Murakami tosai soon to be added to my collection. I had been looking for sanke for some time and was glad to find these 2 which are not bad. Also, I finally got a proper kin showa and a 4-step kujaku for novelty factor :)

    The tosai were too small to measure, but should be around 8 - 12cm. The quarantine period just started, but already can't wait for them to join my pond!

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/16547/IMG_3988.jpg

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/16548/IMG_3739.jpg

    Any comments are most welcome!
    Post edited by wklim at 2014-12-22 06:19:03 pm
  • wklimwklim December 2014
    Posts: 97
    Glad to update that the newly acquired tosai (2 sanke, 1 kin showa & 1 kujaku) finally went into my pond after a month of quarantine at the dealer. They have grown quite a bit in quarantine and so far so good on the condition.

    The sankes' stomach seem weaker than I would like, but I was told it's normal for tosai to gorge on food and become bloated after eating. Hope this is so and Will need to monitor further.

    As always, glad to share my pond video with bros here. You can probably see some of the older/bigger fish rolling and flashing violently... always happens when adding new fish, no matter what I do. I guess the stress is part of this hobby :(


    www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_eucV38G1w&feature=youtu

    Hope bros enjoy it. Happy koi keeping!
    Post edited by wklim at 2014-12-21 08:14:46 pm
  • lautslauts December 2014
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro wklim,

    Some very nice kois there, can't see the new tosai actually. Time to thinks abt upgrading the pond :-D . hate to seem them flashing and this does not need to happen. I think time to brush up on your QT skills. Never heard abt QT in dealer , does it ever work? There are many thread on QT and this is an interesting part of hobby. See no point to risk your collection for new tosais.

    ts
  • wklimwklim December 2014
    Posts: 97
    Thanks a lot, Bro lauts :)

    Really difficult to video the tosai, but I turned off everything and managed to get this short footage of the 4 together:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmiKBEHULb0&feature=youtu

    I normally quarantine at the dealer's place to make sure the whole batch (esp my selected pcs) is still in good condition and healthy after 1 month. I have seen newly imported tosai suddenly "peng san", lose beni or even develop ulcers. This is even so after a few days of acclimtisation.

    Thanks for reminding on home quarantine and you are absolutely right that the risks are not worth it. It's horrific and heart breaking what some bros had experienced from older posts. Guess I will need to persist and continue exploring the different approaches.

    For now, I will PP the whole pond 3ppm and another round 3-4 days later at 2ppm. The biggest risk for me is when a bigger fish suddenly startle the smaller ones, which in turn will jump out in panic or bang another fish or protruding corners in my crowded pond... it's times like these I really wish for a pond upgrade!
    Post edited by wklim at 2014-12-22 06:32:30 pm
  • lautslauts December 2014
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro,

    Another round of QT at home is a good idea . Sorry to hear abt your current predicament esp at this time of year. i had similar experience some year back at around same time and it really ruined my Christmas and year end holidays.

    The tosai sankes looks good. You may need to cover the pond in fear of jumping.

    Good luck and well wishes to you bro.

    ts
  • wklimwklim December 2014
    Posts: 97
    Yes bro, it's starting to look like a sleepless year end for me. At least I can take a breather from work during this period... and fuss over the fishes :-D

    Thanks again bro and well wishes to you too :)
  • wklimwklim March 2015
    Posts: 97
    Hi Bros, just to update on my Nov 2014 tosai, which is now close to 40cm for the biggest sanke. Hope you enjoy the video :)



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