Keeping koi in fgt
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Hi all, I'm new to this forum. I've been thinking of keeping koi but the problem is I don't have a pond. Do I have any options such as a Fgt raising koi? Appreciate your feedback.

    Regards,
    Steven
    Post edited by Koiaii at 2015-01-16 07:41:33 pm
  • MfwleeMfwlee May 2014
    Posts: 355
    Welcome to the forum !
    Spend some time to go through the relevant threads and you will find that many people are also keeping koi in large F/G tanks because they do not have the space for a pond as yet.
    Even though a pond is the preferred way to go, as long as you keep the numbers reasonable, a decent filter, and practice good water keeping, you should be able to have a few for enjoyment.
    How big a tank can you fit in to the space that you have available ?
    Mike Lee
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Hi Mike, I must have not gone to that part yet as I see most have purpose built koi ponds :). I'll do more searching. Well I have approximately 7ftx7ft. Any advice?
  • MfwleeMfwlee May 2014
    Posts: 355
    A picture of your available space would be useful, but based on what you have stated, you could have for example a 6 feet x 3 feet ( width ) x 2.5 feet ( depth ) tank. This would give you 45 cubic feet or close to about 240 - 260 imp gallons depending on how you fill up almost to the top.
    This is what I have been using for my quarantine tanks, but I also use one for three of my favorites.
    I started with 9 carefully selected tosai and reduced the number to 3 after a year and a half. The 3 are quite good quality ( pond standard, not show standard ) and are tame, easy to look after, and give me much enjoyment.
    Some people will want to spend the same amount of money on 3 from the beginning. This will give you the benefit of selecting from more grown up koi - this is a big advantage.
    I am using a simple filter that fits on top of the tank, but you have space for an external filter if you so wish.
    Undoubtedly, some will carry higher stocking levels, and they will have a bit more of work to do compared to me. For them, in addition to the extra work to keep the water healthy, they will also need to have emergency measures in place in the event of an power failure, water rationing, etc, but yes, it can be done but you fast approach the border line with every additional new fella that you put in.

    This is to just give you an idea as to what I personally meant by " reasonable numbers " to keep.
    Mike Lee
  • TomyCTomyC May 2014
    Posts: 103
    Yes, you can keep koi in a FGT tank, but the usual principles of a good pond is still relevant.

    1)As large and deep the pond (1m++) you can fit: more water= more stable parameters.

    2)Centre bottom drain.

    3)Good filter with easy regular maintenance.

    4)Stocking rate

    5)Water changes

    Here's examples of growing koi in a FGT:
    http://www.themtherekoyas.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4276

    http://www.koimag.co.uk/forum/grow-on-tank-t556587.html
    Post edited by Shukri at 2014-05-18 11:29:24 am
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Thanks for your inputs Mike. What I have read is minimum to have 400 to 500 gallons per koi. With the lower volume of water in a f/g tank I believe there must be more diligent water changes. I have read that bakki shower can reduce nitrates, thus achieving a better water quality. But that setup may be more invasive to the limited space I have. Let's say I go for a 6x3x2.5 setup. With regular feeding, may I know how often should I change the water? Can I say the main reason we change the water is to reduce nitrates and introduce fresh minerals to the pond? The idea I'm thinking is to raise tosai and enjoy seeing it grow, also not to mention that would be a lower startup cost. But that's my limited knowledge that I have about koi. Therefore I appreciate the advise you have given so far :). Attached is a picture of the space I have right now. Currently the space is taken up by a 8ft Intex pool.
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/15712/image.jpg
    Post edited by Shukri at 2014-05-18 11:26:16 am
    Attachments
    image.jpg 180K
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Hi TomyC. Thanks for the link. I guess I need to register in order to view the link.
  • ShukriShukri May 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Koiaii,
    When you insert, you have to do it on a fresh line. I have corrected it for you.

    Welcome to koianswers. You are in the right Forum as there are many individuals here that can assist you.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ShukriShukri May 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Koiaii,
    Fishes indeed live in their own toilet bowl............it will just be a matter of time when the waste products over come the water quality, thus why the water changes........ hope this helps.

    Make sure that you have all the necessary test kits handy i.e. salt meter, pH meter, Ammonia, nitrite & nitrate, kH test kits etc...........

    Among other things, make sure that there is ample erations........

    And there have to be mechanical and biological filtrations.

    Please read about the Nitrogen Cycle from the Internet to have better understanding, and what excess Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate can do to your fishes.

    Also understand the medication that are available to you to cure your fishes when they get sick.

    Understand what NPS is............... New Pond Syndrome!
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2014-05-18 11:40:05 am
  • TomyCTomyC May 2014
    Posts: 103
    Most koi will grow big from tosai under most conditions. There's also bonsai koi, where growth is purposely stunted to keep them small. However, a 6 feet x 3 feet ( width ) x 2.5 feet ( depth ) tank is too small for 2 adult koi to live in. So it depends what koi you want to keep now and in the future.

    I suggest you measure up your area to see how much space you can spare. If you go to waist or even chest level, it gives you more water to have more koi, and bigger koi.

    There's no need to go Bakki.

    My thought is: For healthy water conditions, at least 10-25% total weekly water change. Fish do not like large changes in parameters, so it's best to do small water changes, but regularly. Meaning instead of 25% on a Sunday, maybe 5% everyday. To assist in that, add in a water trickle that add fresh tap water 24/7 at a slow rate. One don't really need to dechlorinate if water is added at 1-10% slowly over 24hrs. A water trickle also automatically top up water loss through evaporation or others. You can use pond water to water your plants too (if there's no salt in it).

    "New water" dilutes pollutants in the water, and other things like hormones that stunt growth. http://anoxicfiltrationsystem.blogspot.sg/2013/10/we-own-three-thousand-gallon-pond-and.html?q=pollutant

    Consider the principles in the ERIC system:
    1)Take out mechanical waste regularly (daily).
    2)Clean out bio-section regularly
    3)Little time and effort required to do the above.
    4)Small and compact for its capability

    http://www.ericpondfilters.com/the-new-compact-eric-filter-thats-running-a-550-gallon-indoor-pond/
    Post edited by TomyC at 2014-05-18 12:26:58 pm
  • MfwleeMfwlee May 2014
    Posts: 355
    First question I have - what are the kids going to think of you if you replace their swimming pool ? :-D

    Other than that, looks like sufficient space, you may even consider a tank one size larger ( always go for the largest you can conveniently fit in ), and also looks mostly covered where you do receive some sunlight, plus what looks like a nearby drain to discharge your waste water. All important plus points.

    Second question - do you plan on growing Jumbos ? If you do, then you will need a pond in 2 years. If you do not mind them slightly smaller, the next size up F/G tank will bring you another 100+ imp gallons and ( in my own experience and opinion ) sufficient for you to raise 3 healthy and respectable adults.

    Again from my own personal experience only - a simple over and under filter with the correct materials will suffice, and a Hi Blo 40 will supply adequate aeration through 2 filter stones in the tank, and 1 in the filter. I have not needed anything else for years.

    As for water change, I do not have a bottom drain for my F/G tanks - too much trouble. When I want to do a cleaning job, I only use a simple elbow made from pvc pipes, plug it into the filter outlet, and agitate the media vigorously, so that the muck is emptied into a nearby drain. I may from time to time, also use a small submersible pump ( suspended with a string and moved around the bottom of the tank ) to pump out the bottom whenever i feel a bit more hard working. This is why I was looking at your picture to see where you were going to dump all the rubbish water. This simple set up has worked for me for years, and leaves me with adequate time to manage my small 2000 gallon garden pond.

    Our boss moderator has also given you sufficient pointers to start with. You need to do some homework as well as to budget in the test kits. As for medication - I am one of the lucky ones - have not had to buy medicine for as long as I can remember.
    Mike Lee
  • MfwleeMfwlee May 2014
    Posts: 355
    " ... may I know how often should I change the water ? "

    Nearly forgot. With my F/G set ups explained above, I change approx 20% - 25% every 2 weeks. Sometimes when I have time, maybe every 7 days or so. I flush the filters minimum about once a month. No problems with any of the measured water parameters.

    This works out to a few hours every 2 weeks - and does give me time to relax at my other hobby - fishing. :)
    Mike Lee
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Thanks Shukri for editing the picture and the pointers. Will need to read up more.

    TommyC, wow chest level above ground would bee to high. And also avert sturdy tank is needed :D. A trickle system seems a good idea.

    Mike, the pool is very seldom used now. Recently used for the water rationing. Of course I have to be realistic, I can't expect jumbo size koi with a small setup compared to a full scale pond :D. Can you explain on the under filter? As in bottom filter? May I know what is your water change regime for your fibre tank?
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Oops, somehow i missed your post above on the water changing regime. Thanks a lot for your feedback.
  • MfwleeMfwlee May 2014
    Posts: 355
    " ... simple over and under " filter I am referring to is the normal ( box and lid with all pipes already added ) 4 chamber one that fits on top of the tank. You can actually choose from a few sizes. I use the largest which gives more volume, and is a bit deeper.
    All koi shops can give you advise on the filter material to use and I use ordinary Japanese mat which they cut to size for me. Coarse in the first section, and fine in the others. I also use a bit of coral ( in a net ) in the final section. It is fed by a submersible pump that you can buy anywhere.
    Remember to fabricate the drain pipe as well - 2 x 90 degree elbows joined with appropriate lengths of pipe. This device makes it very easy to flush your filter without dirtying the water.

    No worries if you do not intend having Jumbo's. Not all of us do.
    Mike Lee
  • ShukriShukri May 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    (Y) (Y) (Y)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ShukriShukri May 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Koiaii,
    The kids might decide to swim and play with the kois............ :-)) :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Mike, thanks for the explanation and pointers. Appreciate it. Of course the dream is to have jumbos but resources limits it.

    lol, Shukri that would be like swimming in koi toilet bowl :D.
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    So I read that a goot place to get fgt is at Eng Hin. Does that still hold true?
  • MfwleeMfwlee May 2014
    Posts: 355
    Their prices are quite good, they also have the filter boxes, and include delivery. Look also at their filter media, pumps, plastic hoses, air stones, food, etc. etc. etc. Would help if you compile a list as they are quite far away from city center. They also have a useful catalog which you can take away for future reference.

    Don't expect to get too much advice on Koi keeping though ...

    And yes, don't forget to take your shoes off when you go into the shop. Apparently this is established practice even though they are quite kind about it and nobody screamed the first time I accidentally tromped in. :-D
    Mike Lee
  • KoiaiiKoiaii June 2014
    Posts: 38
  • KoiaiiKoiaii June 2014
    Posts: 38
    Any idea how much should a 8x4x3 fibreglass tank cost?
  • MfwleeMfwlee June 2014
    Posts: 355
    All submersible pumps will generate heat, but I do not have the resources to do a comparison. What I do have is empirical evidence that at least one of them appears suitable - the one that I currently use.
    As for the elbow, think about a pipe that connects to the outlet of your filter - firstly it will need a 90 degree elbow to clear the side of the tank. The second 90 degree elbow is so that you can dump the water downwards towards a convenient drain.
    I slip this on with the pump still running, and then I agitate the media with my hands. The dirty water gets dumped into the drain. I then remove the elbow, and refill with treated water.
    I am overdue for a another visit to Eng Hin - give me a call and I can accompany you there - and this time I will wear socks that do not have a hole in them ! :-D
    Mike Lee
  • KoiaiiKoiaii June 2014
    Posts: 38
    Okay, on the elbow join I get it now. I have pm you my number. I will be free on the 26 June if u can wait... Lol I will just walk in barefooted just in case :p
    Post edited by Koiaii at 2014-06-15 10:15:56 am
  • MfwleeMfwlee June 2014
    Posts: 355
    Have pm'd you as well. The 26th of June is fine. You want to meet in my house before we go ?
    In the meantime, compile your shopping list - I will try to persuade somebody else to come along. He knows them very well. :)
    Mike Lee
  • KoiaiiKoiaii June 2014
    Posts: 38
    Awsome!! I'd love to see your pond. I'll get your address nearer the time.
  • KelvinliowKelvinliow June 2014
    Posts: 39
    Here is my 6x3x1.3 feet for. Got it secondhand from a Sungei Buloh guy who stored this on his display for a few years. The top 3x3x1 feet is a plant filter. Only three koi for now
  • KoiaiiKoiaii June 2014
    Posts: 38
    Nice tank. Not the standard blue type. How are your koia doing?
  • KelvinliowKelvinliow June 2014
    Posts: 39
    Its actually wood with carbon fibre. I only have three socalled capalang koi as these were from a wholesale nursery which were placed in a quarantine area due to sickness. Git them for RM2 each so decided to save them instead of them being culled. Anyway am going to build a pvc pipe roof structure as these days are too hot and the water now is green
  • KoiaiiKoiaii June 2014
    Posts: 38
    So nice of you to save the koia. Do share when the shade is done ya.
  • KoiaiiKoiaii July 2014
    Posts: 38
    Thanks to bro mike for accompanying me to get the fgt and showing me your pond and your other hobbies. Appreciate it.

    My tank was set up on 28th June and is entering the 2nd week now. The nitrite spike seems to be reading 0 now after a couple of water changes during the first week. I was using some matured media from my decommissioned aquarium together with some newly boughht china made bh. Needless to say there are some fishes swimming in there now. I didn't plan for this so soon though. Lol.

    I'm using a overhead filter. The media are arranged as follows.
    First chamber is some brushes, followed by mat and wool filter then at the bottom of the third chamber, I placed some corals and on top ceramic rings, the forth chamber, bh at the bottom and a mixture of biohome and ehiem substrate pro. The salanity is around 0.2%. Any comments sifus?

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/16045/image.jpg
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/16046/image.jpg
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/16047/image.jpg
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/16044/image.jpg
    Post edited by Koiaii at 2014-07-09 08:58:58 pm
  • MfwleeMfwlee July 2014
    Posts: 355
    You are on your way ! Congratulations, and keep us all posted :) :) :)
    Mike Lee
  • KoiaiiKoiaii July 2014
    Posts: 38
    Thanks bro Mike.
  • niveknivek July 2014
    Posts: 1,251
    Enjoy the ride Koiaii (Y)
  • KoiaiiKoiaii July 2014
    Posts: 38
    Thanks bro nivek. I'm sure there will be lots to learn :)
  • KoiaiiKoiaii July 2014
    Posts: 38
    My simple setup.
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/16083/image.jpg
    Attachments
    image.jpg 140K
  • harryyewharryyew July 2014
    Posts: 396
    Congratulation bro koiaii

    Cheers
  • IzrulIzrul July 2014
    Posts: 715
    i see kohakus :) :)
  • KoiaiiKoiaii July 2014
    Posts: 38
    Thanks bro harryyew.... Bro izrul, yes 1 kohaku and one sanke. The kohaku is skinny though and has a s shaped body.... At this point not sure how much bioload my filter can cope with. Still exploring.

    I'm feeding the floating pellets and also tried sinking pellets. They do not hesitate with the sinking pellets.... I'm wondering how do I guage how much food is enough for them? The time they spend eating? They eat the sinking much faster than they do floating. Any advise shifu?
  • IzrulIzrul July 2014
    Posts: 715
    they're afraid of new environment..starve them for 1 week,than they gonna eat pellets from your hand
  • MfwleeMfwlee July 2014
    Posts: 355
    The challenge right now is to mature your filter. Denying the fellas food will only delay the maturing process while overfeeding will overwhelm your new filter.

    Better to feed lightly and to check everyday for Ammonia and Nitrite spikes. Your new filter will catch up soon, but it will require a couple of weeks.

    All the best ! :)
    Mike Lee
  • KoiaiiKoiaii July 2014
    Posts: 38
    Eat from the hands. That will be awesome! Maybe I'll try starving them if they can gain some weight :)
  • KoiaiiKoiaii July 2014
    Posts: 38
    Thanks bro mike. I have tested randomly for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Since last week I did not detect any ammonia and nitrite. Just nitrate present. However I didn't check for ammonia after feeding tho. Should I check for ammonia after feeding? If so how long after feeding?
  • KoiaiiKoiaii July 2014
    Posts: 38
    Here is a picture after the refresh powder cleared up. I have a fan blowing across the tank to reduce the tank temperature during this hot weather spell. Will continue to keep a lookout on the water parameters.
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/16094/image.jpg
    Attachments
    image.jpg 158K
  • MfwleeMfwlee July 2014
    Posts: 355
    On my part, I normally check water parameters in the morning before I feed. Considering that the fellas have not been fed all night, this should give me the " best " water conditions in the tank. Any spike is therefore serious and should be attended to.
    What's that I see - your population is growing ? :-))
    Mike Lee
  • KoiaiiKoiaii July 2014
    Posts: 38
    Lol. Added some local koi to see the developement for instant gratification :D
  • niveknivek July 2014
    Posts: 1,251
    Bro, get the high speed fans that looks like the one below. They are roughly about RM100 and consumes around 40Watts of power. Sizewise around 9-10 inches. Pretty sure you can get around 26C with this similar to what I'm getting now.

    koianswers.com/discussion/download/16095/fan.jpeg
    Attachments
    fan.jpeg 5K
  • KoiaiiKoiaii July 2014
    Posts: 38
    Thanks bro Kevin. But my concern would be the exposed blades. But where can I buy those fans anyway?
  • niveknivek July 2014
    Posts: 1,251
    In Penang we can get it from Thye Huat which is pretty much a handyman shop. You can modify a cover from steel / plastic mesh to cover the blades.
  • KoiaiiKoiaii July 2014
    Posts: 38
    Thanks! I'll keep that in mind.
  • vic_slash20vic_slash20 July 2014
    Posts: 118
    I love your koi tank bro. Koiaii.. the kohaku too.. :)
  • ChengAunChengAun July 2014
    Posts: 925
    Nice set up (Y) Make sure the pH is adequately buffered and looked after. I had to learn that the hard way :( Moreover smaller volumes of water and un-established ecosystem are more prone to pH shock.
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • KoiaiiKoiaii July 2014
    Posts: 38
    Thanks bro vic_slash20 & bro chengaun. It's just A basic setup. I have some coral chips to buffer the ph. Filter abit on the small side. Need to control the feeding, else it gets brownish with more feeding.
  • KoiaiiKoiaii January 2015
    Posts: 38
    Sifus, when I started the fgt setup, I was hoping that the kois would come up to the surface when I'm near or feeding them. However, in reality they are shy and would only come up and feed when I'm out of sight :(. Not what I imagined. Lol. I tried starving them for a few days and still reluctant to greet me. Any advise? Below is a pic of the I just took.

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/16794/image.jpg
    Attachments
    image.jpg 171K
  • ikankoikauikankoikau January 2015
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro,
    Getting a chagoi or karashi or a leader might helps. Your big kois could be male and male koi tends to be very shy(opposite of human).

    Regard
  • Jason_SGJason_SG January 2015
    Posts: 69
    sorry to say after looking at your photo your fish dont look healthy. as what Ikankoikau San say a leader koi may help on the feeding issue but of cause a good tip top water condition is needed to bring them back in shape.

    Keeping in FGT is ok just that you need a tip top filtration system to maintain the water quality at all time. you dont need the above if you have good water coming in to the FGT all the time.
    Post edited by Jason_SG at 2015-01-16 11:15:27 am
  • KoiaiiKoiaii January 2015
    Posts: 38
    Thanks for your inputs bros. Will a chagoi of the same size help of a juvanile one? Coz getting a big one will further deteriorate the water.

    Bro jason_sg. Thanks for your honest comments. Yup they are shy eaters and I don't feed them often partly because they are shy and also to prevent water the water to go bad too fast. The no3 reading is around 40-50 ppm. Is that too high?
  • Jason_SGJason_SG January 2015
    Posts: 69
    Hi Koiaii

    Your Answer on No3

    Nitrates, NO3-N

    Nitrates are a natural by-product of the bacterial "reduction" or removal of Ammonia and Nitrite in the natural pond's ecosystem. Nitrates are an under-estimated fish killer. When fish are sick, and the history contains some information to suggest the pond has been set up for a while, you can bet Nitrate levels are part of the problem. This is especially true for Goldfish and "flipover" disease. Once dismissed as a "non" threat to Koi and Goldfish, exceptional information exists to suggest this is not true. Scientists initially evaluating Nitrates as a toxin did not test their subjects long enough. Nitrate accumulations cause dilation of the veins in the fins and other health problems. Never let your nitrate levels exceed 100 ppm or illness and vulnerability to disease will be the result!

    Nitrate control in Koi care:

    1. Made from Nitrite by Nitrobacter

    2. Toxic above 120 ppm (Nitrate test)

    3. Signs include red streaking in fins, dilated blood vessels in fins and skin, "heavy" smelling water, and lethargic fish. Folks with fish which are "poor doing" can be rewarded to check Nitrates. Chronic illness or susceptibility to disease are often caused by high Nitrates.

    4. Ideal range: 20-60 ppm is acceptable.

    5. Do massive water changes to reduce levels below 80 ppm.

    6. Remove by water changes. Allow algae to grow on the liner.

    7. If you usea algae destroyer, you will have no plant Nitrate utilization. This can be hazardous.

    8. Generally not acutely toxic unless algae are specifically excluded.

    The above information was taken from " http://www.michigankoi.com/Nitrate-In-Koi-Ponds-Koi-Pond-Water-Information-sc-122.html "


    you may want to have some plants like pandan plants in your filter box.
    Post edited by Jason_SG at 2015-01-19 10:11:41 am
  • KoiaiiKoiaii January 2015
    Posts: 38
    Thanks for the info bro Jason
  • Jason_SGJason_SG January 2015
    Posts: 69
    Dear Koiaii

    you are most welcome. hope to see your fish grow well and fat fat soon
  • KoiaiiKoiaii January 2015
    Posts: 38
    Thanks bro. For that I would probably need a proper pond. Haha.
  • Jason_SGJason_SG January 2015
    Posts: 69
    Not really. for me if dont want to have a pond i woulfd just upgrade my FGT and my filter.
  • KoiaiiKoiaii June 2015
    Posts: 38
    Omg I did the unthinkable. Pls pray for me.
    Attachments
    image.jpg 197K
  • gerrygerry June 2015
    Posts: 777
    Why pray for you? What happened?
  • kolampkolamp June 2015
    Posts: 222
    looks like the water has dried out...maybe forgot to do something or loose piping :-?
  • KoiaiiKoiaii June 2015
    Posts: 38
    Absent minded me left the water to drain out almost dry. Luckily they survived the WC. Phew.
  • gerrygerry June 2015
    Posts: 777
    Waliao.... cant afford for that to happen again wei! :O


Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Apply for Membership

test