Keeping koi in fgt
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Hi all, I'm new to this forum. I've been thinking of keeping koi but the problem is I don't have a pond. Do I have any options such as a Fgt raising koi? Appreciate your feedback.

    Regards,
    Steven
  • MfwleeMfwlee May 2014
    Posts: 355
    Welcome to the forum !
    Spend some time to go through the relevant threads and you will find that many people are also keeping koi in large F/G tanks because they do not have the space for a pond as yet.
    Even though a pond is the preferred way to go, as long as you keep the numbers reasonable, a decent filter, and practice good water keeping, you should be able to have a few for enjoyment.
    How big a tank can you fit in to the space that you have available ?
    Mike Lee
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Hi Mike, I must have not gone to that part yet as I see most have purpose built koi ponds :). I'll do more searching. Well I have approximately 7ftx7ft. Any advice?
  • MfwleeMfwlee May 2014
    Posts: 355
    A picture of your available space would be useful, but based on what you have stated, you could have for example a 6 feet x 3 feet ( width ) x 2.5 feet ( depth ) tank. This would give you 45 cubic feet or close to about 240 - 260 imp gallons depending on how you fill up almost to the top.
    This is what I have been using for my quarantine tanks, but I also use one for three of my favorites.
    I started with 9 carefully selected tosai and reduced the number to 3 after a year and a half. The 3 are quite good quality ( pond standard, not show standard ) and are tame, easy to look after, and give me much enjoyment.
    Some people will want to spend the same amount of money on 3 from the beginning. This will give you the benefit of selecting from more grown up koi - this is a big advantage.
    I am using a simple filter that fits on top of the tank, but you have space for an external filter if you so wish.
    Undoubtedly, some will carry higher stocking levels, and they will have a bit more of work to do compared to me. For them, in addition to the extra work to keep the water healthy, they will also need to have emergency measures in place in the event of an power failure, water rationing, etc, but yes, it can be done but you fast approach the border line with every additional new fella that you put in.

    This is to just give you an idea as to what I personally meant by " reasonable numbers " to keep.
    Mike Lee
  • TomyCTomyC May 2014
    Posts: 103
    Yes, you can keep koi in a FGT tank, but the usual principles of a good pond is still relevant.

    1)As large and deep the pond (1m++) you can fit: more water= more stable parameters.

    2)Centre bottom drain.

    3)Good filter with easy regular maintenance.

    4)Stocking rate

    5)Water changes

    Here's examples of growing koi in a FGT:
    http://www.themtherekoyas.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4276

    http://www.koimag.co.uk/forum/grow-on-tank-t556587.html
    Post edited by Shukri at 2014-05-18 11:29:24 am
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Thanks for your inputs Mike. What I have read is minimum to have 400 to 500 gallons per koi. With the lower volume of water in a f/g tank I believe there must be more diligent water changes. I have read that bakki shower can reduce nitrates, thus achieving a better water quality. But that setup may be more invasive to the limited space I have. Let's say I go for a 6x3x2.5 setup. With regular feeding, may I know how often should I change the water? Can I say the main reason we change the water is to reduce nitrates and introduce fresh minerals to the pond? The idea I'm thinking is to raise tosai and enjoy seeing it grow, also not to mention that would be a lower startup cost. But that's my limited knowledge that I have about koi. Therefore I appreciate the advise you have given so far :). Attached is a picture of the space I have right now. Currently the space is taken up by a 8ft Intex pool.
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/15712/image.jpg
    Post edited by Shukri at 2014-05-18 11:26:16 am
    Attachments
    image.jpg 180K
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Hi TomyC. Thanks for the link. I guess I need to register in order to view the link.
  • ShukriShukri May 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Koiaii,
    When you insert, you have to do it on a fresh line. I have corrected it for you.

    Welcome to koianswers. You are in the right Forum as there are many individuals here that can assist you.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ShukriShukri May 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Koiaii,
    Fishes indeed live in their own toilet bowl............it will just be a matter of time when the waste products over come the water quality, thus why the water changes........ hope this helps.

    Make sure that you have all the necessary test kits handy i.e. salt meter, pH meter, Ammonia, nitrite & nitrate, kH test kits etc...........

    Among other things, make sure that there is ample erations........

    And there have to be mechanical and biological filtrations.

    Please read about the Nitrogen Cycle from the Internet to have better understanding, and what excess Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate can do to your fishes.

    Also understand the medication that are available to you to cure your fishes when they get sick.

    Understand what NPS is............... New Pond Syndrome!
    Post edited by Shukri at 2014-05-18 11:40:05 am
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • TomyCTomyC May 2014
    Posts: 103
    Most koi will grow big from tosai under most conditions. There's also bonsai koi, where growth is purposely stunted to keep them small. However, a 6 feet x 3 feet ( width ) x 2.5 feet ( depth ) tank is too small for 2 adult koi to live in. So it depends what koi you want to keep now and in the future.

    I suggest you measure up your area to see how much space you can spare. If you go to waist or even chest level, it gives you more water to have more koi, and bigger koi.

    There's no need to go Bakki.

    My thought is: For healthy water conditions, at least 10-25% total weekly water change. Fish do not like large changes in parameters, so it's best to do small water changes, but regularly. Meaning instead of 25% on a Sunday, maybe 5% everyday. To assist in that, add in a water trickle that add fresh tap water 24/7 at a slow rate. One don't really need to dechlorinate if water is added at 1-10% slowly over 24hrs. A water trickle also automatically top up water loss through evaporation or others. You can use pond water to water your plants too (if there's no salt in it).

    "New water" dilutes pollutants in the water, and other things like hormones that stunt growth. http://anoxicfiltrationsystem.blogspot.sg/2013/10/we-own-three-thousand-gallon-pond-and.html?q=pollutant

    Consider the principles in the ERIC system:
    1)Take out mechanical waste regularly (daily).
    2)Clean out bio-section regularly
    3)Little time and effort required to do the above.
    4)Small and compact for its capability

    http://www.ericpondfilters.com/the-new-compact-eric-filter-thats-running-a-550-gallon-indoor-pond/
    Post edited by TomyC at 2014-05-18 12:26:58 pm
  • MfwleeMfwlee May 2014
    Posts: 355
    First question I have - what are the kids going to think of you if you replace their swimming pool ? :-D

    Other than that, looks like sufficient space, you may even consider a tank one size larger ( always go for the largest you can conveniently fit in ), and also looks mostly covered where you do receive some sunlight, plus what looks like a nearby drain to discharge your waste water. All important plus points.

    Second question - do you plan on growing Jumbos ? If you do, then you will need a pond in 2 years. If you do not mind them slightly smaller, the next size up F/G tank will bring you another 100+ imp gallons and ( in my own experience and opinion ) sufficient for you to raise 3 healthy and respectable adults.

    Again from my own personal experience only - a simple over and under filter with the correct materials will suffice, and a Hi Blo 40 will supply adequate aeration through 2 filter stones in the tank, and 1 in the filter. I have not needed anything else for years.

    As for water change, I do not have a bottom drain for my F/G tanks - too much trouble. When I want to do a cleaning job, I only use a simple elbow made from pvc pipes, plug it into the filter outlet, and agitate the media vigorously, so that the muck is emptied into a nearby drain. I may from time to time, also use a small submersible pump ( suspended with a string and moved around the bottom of the tank ) to pump out the bottom whenever i feel a bit more hard working. This is why I was looking at your picture to see where you were going to dump all the rubbish water. This simple set up has worked for me for years, and leaves me with adequate time to manage my small 2000 gallon garden pond.

    Our boss moderator has also given you sufficient pointers to start with. You need to do some homework as well as to budget in the test kits. As for medication - I am one of the lucky ones - have not had to buy medicine for as long as I can remember.
    Mike Lee
  • MfwleeMfwlee May 2014
    Posts: 355
    " ... may I know how often should I change the water ? "

    Nearly forgot. With my F/G set ups explained above, I change approx 20% - 25% every 2 weeks. Sometimes when I have time, maybe every 7 days or so. I flush the filters minimum about once a month. No problems with any of the measured water parameters.

    This works out to a few hours every 2 weeks - and does give me time to relax at my other hobby - fishing. :)
    Mike Lee
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Thanks Shukri for editing the picture and the pointers. Will need to read up more.

    TommyC, wow chest level above ground would bee to high. And also avert sturdy tank is needed :D. A trickle system seems a good idea.

    Mike, the pool is very seldom used now. Recently used for the water rationing. Of course I have to be realistic, I can't expect jumbo size koi with a small setup compared to a full scale pond :D. Can you explain on the under filter? As in bottom filter? May I know what is your water change regime for your fibre tank?
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Oops, somehow i missed your post above on the water changing regime. Thanks a lot for your feedback.
  • MfwleeMfwlee May 2014
    Posts: 355
    " ... simple over and under " filter I am referring to is the normal ( box and lid with all pipes already added ) 4 chamber one that fits on top of the tank. You can actually choose from a few sizes. I use the largest which gives more volume, and is a bit deeper.
    All koi shops can give you advise on the filter material to use and I use ordinary Japanese mat which they cut to size for me. Coarse in the first section, and fine in the others. I also use a bit of coral ( in a net ) in the final section. It is fed by a submersible pump that you can buy anywhere.
    Remember to fabricate the drain pipe as well - 2 x 90 degree elbows joined with appropriate lengths of pipe. This device makes it very easy to flush your filter without dirtying the water.

    No worries if you do not intend having Jumbo's. Not all of us do.
    Mike Lee
  • ShukriShukri May 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    (Y) (Y) (Y)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ShukriShukri May 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Koiaii,
    The kids might decide to swim and play with the kois............ :-)) :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    Mike, thanks for the explanation and pointers. Appreciate it. Of course the dream is to have jumbos but resources limits it.

    lol, Shukri that would be like swimming in koi toilet bowl :D.
  • KoiaiiKoiaii May 2014
    Posts: 38
    So I read that a goot place to get fgt is at Eng Hin. Does that still hold true?
  • MfwleeMfwlee May 2014
    Posts: 355
    Their prices are quite good, they also have the filter boxes, and include delivery. Look also at their filter media, pumps, plastic hoses, air stones, food, etc. etc. etc. Would help if you compile a list as they are quite far away from city center. They also have a useful catalog which you can take away for future reference.

    Don't expect to get too much advice on Koi keeping though ...

    And yes, don't forget to take your shoes off when you go into the shop. Apparently this is established practice even though they are quite kind about it and nobody screamed the first time I accidentally tromped in. :-D
    Mike Lee
  • KoiaiiKoiaii June 2014
    Posts: 38
    " ... simple over and under " filter I am referring to is the normal ( box and lid with all pipes already added ) 4 chamber one that fits on top of the tank. You can actually choose from a few sizes. I use the largest which gives more volume, and is a bit deeper.
    All koi shops can give you advise on the filter material to use and I use ordinary Japanese mat which they cut to size for me. Coarse in the first section, and fine in the others. I also use a bit of coral ( in a net ) in the final section. It is fed by a submersible pump that you can buy anywhere.
    Remember to fabricate the drain pipe as well - 2 x 90 degree elbows joined with appropriate lengths of pipe. This device makes it very easy to flush your filter without dirtying the water.

    No worries if you do not intend having Jumbo's. Not all of us do.


    Sifu Mike. I'm trying to figure out the 2x 90 degree elbow join. Shouldn't I need only 1 for the outlet when I do the agitating/flushing?

    So I gathered that I would need a fgt, box filter, pump, filter media, piping, air blower and air curtain. Anything else that I missed? Any recommendation for a good value pump that is efficient and doesn't heat up too much?

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